"Rents are at a record high – so why are private landlords selling up?"

[llgon]

there can't be many properties out there being currently rented for less than the "all time high" of the property.

While the rents may not have decreased I would expect that the rental profits have in a lot of cases, as the costs have increased. For example the service charge for an apartment I own has increased from €1950 in 2018 to over €3200 this year.

 

[Greenbook]

Have you seen the new termination rules coming in in the next week or so? 3 months notice for tenancies under six months. Further increases for notice for tenancies upto three years. For every termination, the notice must be served on the tenant and the RTB on the same day, otherwise it is invalid.

 

[KOW]

Anybody know what happens be it under RAS or the long term rental agreements when the contract ends with County Councils.
The property is leased to said county council who place tenant in property. What happens if the tenant gives the two fingers when contract ends.

 

[lff12]

While the rents may not have decreased I would expect that the rental profits have in a lot of cases, as the costs have increased. For example the service charge for an apartment I own has increased from €1950 in 2018 to over €3200 this year.

Or more pertinently, the ability to reduce taxes via various allowances has greatly reduced.

Anybody know what happens be it under RAS or the long term rental agreements when the contract ends with County Councils.
The property is leased to said county council who place tenant in property. What happens if the tenant gives the two fingers when contract ends.

Not sure - council may have a clause whereby they can rent to a new tenant, but more likely the contract ends? You'd need to talk to someone who actually has a lease with the council.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Well yes that's kindof my point. Are there many landlords out there who are getting less than their own particular "all time high" for a property?
If so when were they getting higher rents? 2007?
So while some landlords are getting higher rents than others, even for similar properties, there can't be many properties out there being currently rented for less than the "all time high" of the property.

In 2007 we were getting €900 a month for both properties, now we are getting €1400 a month each , same type of house over 2000sq feet and 5 bedrooms, one in Nass the other in Oranmore and they are certainly below market or as you say " all time high ".

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Anybody know what happens be it under RAS or the long term rental agreements when the contract ends with County Councils.
The property is leased to said county council who place tenant in property. What happens if the tenant gives the two fingers when contract ends.

Very little data or actual facts about this but I would imagine its rolled up into the arrears figures that Councils and indeed Housing Associations publish.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Not sure - council may have a clause whereby they can rent to a new tenant, but more likely the contract ends? You'd need to talk to someone who actually has a lease with the council.

Councils do not "turf people out " , and I spoke with a councillor recently over a pint and she confirmed this.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Trying to remember which thread as there are so many, but the legislation to take the arrears off payments from the government is still not passed, and its causing a huge issue, I'm working from memory but arrears could be as high as €350m at 31st Dec 2020 but many think this is " reported" arrears and the actual figure is higher.


I don't want to jump to conclusions but over the last few months while doing research its impossible to tie up figures on any aspect of this issue.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

While the rents may not have decreased I would expect that the rental profits have in a lot of cases, as the costs have increased. For example the service charge for an apartment I own has increased from €1950 in 2018 to over €3200 this year.

But equally your tax liability has decreased and your asset value has increased. Yes you will pay tax on the increase if you sell, but owing an asset that's essentially increasing by 10% plus pa , and you payments essentially static, and taxation reduced......its not a bad return.

 

[llgon]

But equally your tax liability has decreased and your asset value has increased. Yes you will pay tax on the increase if you sell, but owing an asset that's essentially increasing by 10% plus pa , and you payments essentially static, and taxation reduced......its not a bad return.

Are you my accountant? I only mentioned one expense but you seem to know it all .

You're way out in some of your assumptions though and reduced taxation is only due to reduced income. Try giving someone a pay cut and tell them it's not bad, their tax liability will decrease.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Are you my accountant? I only mentioned one expense but you seem to know it all .

You're way out in some of your assumptions though and reduced taxation is only due to reduced income. Try giving someone a pay cut and tell them it's not bad, their tax liability will decrease.

Eh no I'm not your accountant and equally you gave only one example, so I based my response on your post.

If I am " way off on my assumptions " please correct me. I certainly didn't intend to upset you in anyway, if I did I apologise.

However my post isn't that far away from the reality, yes your income is lower, as is your tax liability, but surely the value of the underlying asset has increased too, or maybe not?

While I understand your income has declined and that pressure from a cashflow perspective I was trying to describe a holistic view.


Again I apologise for any hurt I caused

 

[bipped]

Have you seen the new termination rules coming in in the next week or so? 3 months notice for tenancies under six months. Further increases for notice for tenancies upto three years. For every termination, the notice must be served on the tenant and the RTB on the same day, otherwise it is invalid.

Read it on the RTB website. They should change the name to NEC (never ending changes).


Has this Rent Reduction Bill any chance of being passed or is it just noise?

Rent Reduction Bill 2022

Act and Bill text

www.oireachtas.ie

 

[llgon]

Eh no I'm not your accountant and equally you gave only one example, so I based my response on your post.

If I am " way off on my assumptions " please correct me. I certainly didn't intend to upset you in anyway, if I did I apologise.

However my post isn't that far away from the reality, yes your income is lower, as is your tax liability, but surely the value of the underlying asset has increased too, or maybe not?

While I understand your income has declined and that pressure from a cashflow perspective I was trying to describe a holistic view.


Again I apologise for any hurt I caused

No worries, no hurt caused. I'm not going to take the thread off-topic but lots of issues can arise which upset the best made plans. General assumptions may not hold true in a lot of situations related to property ownership.

I didn't post looking for sympathy though. I was only giving an example of how rental profits are affected, if you read the post in the context of the thread.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I didn't post looking for sympathy though. I was only giving an example of how rental profits are affected, if you read the post in the context of the thread.

I know but I find it more gentlemanly to give all the facts rather than focus on one issue.

I too am a "landlord," unfortunately, and understand that increases in costs don't necessarily flow through to hardship that is perceived.

Thus my reply.

 

[lff12]

Has this Rent Reduction Bill any chance of being passed or is it just noise?

Rent Reduction Bill 2022

Act and Bill text

www.oireachtas.ie

on p1 it says "Luxury accommodation is excluded" which means that literally everything gets declared to be "Luxury accommodation" in order to bypass it. Its noise.

 

[Greenbook]

It won't be passed, it's a Richard Boyd Barrett, not a government Bill. But per the Bill REITs can continue to charge €5k for a three bed apartment - on the basis that they are renting to millionaires. The small private landlord will be confined to 25% of the median wage as rent. Shows where RBB's priorities lie

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Seems something similar happening in London according to the FT:

Research from property site Zoopla found that rents increased by nearly 20 per cent in inner London in the first quarter of 2022, and by 10 per cent in outer London. That compares with growth of about 2 per cent in the first quarter of 2019............
Supply of private rented accommodation has fallen sharply in London to a five-year-low after buy-to-let investors sold up or reduced their exposure during the coronavirus pandemic. On average, letting agencies had 11.8 homes to rent in the capital in the year to date, compared with 21.8 in the five years to 2021, a fall of 48 per cent, according to Zoopla. Richard Donnell, research director at Zoopla, said: “A lot of the focus has been on the sales market, but there’s actually an even greater supply squeeze in the lettings market and it’s worst in London.”

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Credit where credit it due, homeless charity Focus Ireland have come out and said that small landlords need fairer tax treatment to keep them in the market.

The Government needs to introduce a raft of tax measures urgently to encourage small landlords to retain their properties in the rental market in an effort to ease the housing crisis, Focus Ireland and Chartered Accountants Ireland have warned........

The measures both bodies are calling for include: doubling wear and tear rates to 25 per cent to allow better maintenance and refurbishing of properties without evicting tenants, providing 100 per cent capital allowances for the cost of retrofitting homes to improve their energy rating if tenants are allowed to remain in place, giving the same tax treatment to individual landlords and corporates, while allowing for the deduction of local property tax against rental income.

I don't think these measures would move the dial much, but even the NGOs realise that fixing the private rented sector needs more than just more regulation.

 

[AlbacoreA]

I wouldn't be given them credit for anything. It's very late in the day realizing this sort of stuff after the horse has well and truly bolted. ..

"organisations" have played their own role in creating this crisis by endlessly championing tenant rights at the exclusion of functioning system for private landlords. They've sawed the branch on which they've been standing.

 

[Purple]

Credit where credit it due, homeless charity Focus Ireland have come out and said that small landlords need fairer tax treatment to keep them in the market.


I don't think these measures would move the dial much, but even the NGOs realise that fixing the private rented sector needs more than just more regulation.

Focus Ireland are a far left political lobby group and are far more interested in their political ideology than helping to "solve" homelessness. I wouldn't give them the time of day and I'd rather burn my money than give it to them. I think it's disgraceful that they receive any State funding.

Focus Ireland are an anti-landlord organisation who make the problems we have around housing provision worse.

They state on their website that "All homelessness is wrong". It isn't.
An able bodied person who can support themselves and chooses not to should receive nothing from the State or any charity. The morally correct thing to do it to let them starve.