The RTB can't decide whether what your trying to do is a normal tenancy or not, they will just direct you or quote you their own website. You have to make the decision that you are not a normal landlord and I think since you're not telling us why you are going into and out of the property that you are trying to avoid being a normal landlord. And that's the sole aim of this exercise. Why else would one do it.
rent by room RTB registration
- Thread starter desperateone22
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Go on then and tell us what this letter will ask? You can just send them an email. You'll be directed to their website or directed to the legislation.
Tenants can be, but you can not register a property as being let on a room by room basis.
Registering the property means exactly that, the full property becomes the subject of the let and the tenants become entitled to exclusive occupation of the property in a jointly and severally liable tenancy.
Well I very much doubt you can remove all original tenants and put on new ones on an existing RTB registration, and anyway, now we have annual registration so why would one be doing that.
desperateone22
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Sorry Bronte, but I'm not avoiding anything! The house is set up that way, it has three floors. I retain access to one and use it frequently during the day, there is also a garden used by everybody incl me. It may not be "the normal" set up and it may not fit the usual boxes authorities love so much but there is nothing funny going on, that's the way the house was structured historically. And if I choose to rent it room by room and retain use of some part that's not illegal, is it? RTB is good to wave a stick at landlords but their website is quite vague in some areas and particularly in this. And it looks like there are many and varied opinions about what can or cannot be done as regards RTB registration and adding/removing tenants in situation like this.
If you are renting on a room by room basis, tenants move in and out singly, not en bloc.
Can you point us to where we have been around this before.
Hi Leo, I would be very grateful if you could show where this is in legislation. I an in the process of explaining to Revenue why my property is a licence and not registered. I can see provision for this on RTB website and Threshold website but would like to quote legislation to them. Thanks in advance.
Why do revenue care re RTB? As long as you pay your tax, do they have a role in enforcing RTB registration unless of course you are claiming relief on interest.
Though I recall at least one poster (@T McGibney I think) insisting at one time that registration was not a pre-req for claiming mortgage interest.
Dr Strangelove
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You can, at least on a one-by-one basis. It’s called assignment of lease.
Much like Trigger’s Broom, a lease can exist when all of the original tenants have been replaced.
The legislation defines the conditions that need to be met for a multi-tenancy to gain Part 4 protection in Section 50. It contains provisions added explicitly to ensure that "the distinction that exists between licences and tenancies does not operate to frustrate the objectives of" the legislation. subsequent to that is provides for licencees the right to request to become tenants and then enjoy the benefits of Part 4 protection.
The RTB have authority review complaints from licencees who feel their landlord has unfairly refused their request to convert to a tenancy (section 76)
I think this is all way too complicated.
Threshold thinks a normal tenancy does not exist if the landlord lives in the house.
threshold.ie
Here's the legislation for Cream Egg.
Threshold thinks a normal tenancy does not exist if the landlord lives in the house.
Am I a tenant? - Threshold
threshold.ie
Here's the legislation for Cream Egg.
Residential Tenancies Act 2004, Section 50
The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.
www.irishstatutebook.ie
Threshold have this neat paragraph:
Room-by-room occupancy
If you do not wish to live alone or cannot afford your own private rented property you may decide to rent a room in a private rented property. Your option may be to enter into a house share, where you are ‘jointly and severally’ liable together as tenants for the whole property, or you may decide to exclusively rent a room only, in a private rented property. A room-by-room occupancy may have some/all of the following characteristics:
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This is what the OP is skirting around. And it's a 'grey' area because Threshold is refusing to say outright that it's a tenancy. But they for certain are there to help potential tenants.
Room-by-room occupancy
If you do not wish to live alone or cannot afford your own private rented property you may decide to rent a room in a private rented property. Your option may be to enter into a house share, where you are ‘jointly and severally’ liable together as tenants for the whole property, or you may decide to exclusively rent a room only, in a private rented property. A room-by-room occupancy may have some/all of the following characteristics:
- The landlord advertises and views the room with you
- Other rooms are already occupied
- A separate lease for your room is provided
- Bills are in the landlord’s name
- You have exclusive occupation of your own room only
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This is what the OP is skirting around. And it's a 'grey' area because Threshold is refusing to say outright that it's a tenancy. But they for certain are there to help potential tenants.
Yeah, they've been campaigning for some time to remove the option for licencees where the landlord is not present.
That makes sense and if I were them that's what they are for, to advocate for tenant's rights.
So far on this thread I'm at a loss to see a genuine licence agreement that is not contrived. Maybe I'm missing something. No way is any of my posts pro RTB, but I've zero problem with tenants having rights and having those rights defended.
As per the other threads on this, most landlords don't want the hassle of the additional work that goes along with maintaining licensee status. It can make sense in some situations, but as you say, setting it up this way just to circumvent tenancy rights is a contrivance, but one the legislation foresaw,
This describes exactly how I rent my property
Since the introduction of RPZ this means that I am not restricted by the rent caps.
Thanks to Bronte and Leo for their replies, but I cannot see where the above is grounded in legislation. Though obviously it must be as Threshold and the RTB provide a similar outline.
I have done things this way for may years,long before the RTB came into existence. The reason I do it this way is because the idea of joint and several liability for students is a nonsense. If one student drops out of college, the others will not pay his/her rent and I have no desire to chase them through the courts.
Since the introduction of RPZ this means that I am not restricted by the rent caps.
Thanks to Bronte and Leo for their replies, but I cannot see where the above is grounded in legislation. Though obviously it must be as Threshold and the RTB provide a similar outline.
The legislation defines the conditions in which a tenancy which is subject to registration is deemed to be formed. All other scenarios are excluded but you'll never get some of those defined in the legislation as doing so would open a massive can of worms regarding what is or is not a tenancy versus a license arrangement.
presidenttttt
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The only clear thing I have read here appears to be the fact that a licensee can ask to become a tenant, so this seems not to support the argument of those that suggest basically everything is RTB and tenant fair game.
I also don't see anything that says the definition of a licensee includes a need for landlord to reside in the property. But what ia the definition?
Cremegg presumably your setup is HMO? Any issues with insurer?
I also don't see anything that says the definition of a licensee includes a need for landlord to reside in the property. But what ia the definition?
Cremegg presumably your setup is HMO? Any issues with insurer?