Reform of the private rental sector

[BilliamD75]

The big short, I have had a look at your proposal using balance and logic and found the concept very good, it's very unfortunate that it would never work in Ireland as stated by others, I am a landlord myself and as a small property developer got into the business just to park capital, we had a great business model but have had enough of it, we rent 35% below market cost in Dublin City centre costing a small fortune, why there is a human element to it, the tenants who are Eastern European couples mostly, are the best and most hard working people I have met and are look after the apartments (three couples are with us over 12 years) , had one Irish person an estate agent and wrecked an apartment costing a fortune, the government have lost the plot making the suitation worse so its time to get out of the game, taxation and the socialists are to blame also , please use balance when suggesting landlords are increasing via the rtb, we all know that American capital is providing a high volume of apartments in Dublin through nama sales while the small Irish landlord some whom in my opinion should never have been allowed to be in the game like 100% interested only players, taxi drivers who owe 4 million and no money down and the gougers are getting out, my tuppence worth

 

[Sarenco]

The number of landlords registered with RTB has been increasing since 2015.

According to their annual reports, there were 174k landlords registered with the RTB in 2017, versus 175k in 2016.

That doesn’t look like an increase to me.

 

[TheBigShort]

please use balance when suggesting landlords are increasing via the rtb,

Absolutely, but it wasn't me that suggested it. It was a landlord on this site that commented once that they should increase their rents because the HAP will pay and tenants wont care.

And with respect, limiting the blame for the housing and homeless crisis to current government policies is simplifying things. The same crisis is manifesting itself in many, many developed countries across the world all at the same time.
This is a failure of an economic model that was built on a system of perpetual and ever increasing debt than transcends individual economies. We are enduring the consequences of that model.
I don't think it is coincidence.
That is why I think it is futile for others to persistently focus on the extreme marginal cases of housing mismanagement in the State. The issue is much bigger, much broader, much deeper than a cluster of mismanaged social housing units.

 

[TheBigShort]

According to their annual reports, there were 174k landlords registered with the RTB in 2017, versus 175k in 2016.

That doesn’t look like an increase to me.

The report im reading states 175k for 2016 and 176K for Sept end 2017.

Source: @AlbacoreA "How many landlords have quit..." page 13

 

[AlbacoreA]

Its old data at this point. Also could you not find your own data sources?

Maybe we should link to the articles and reports.
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/03/07/mick-landlords-aren-t-fleeing-the-market-in-droves

I see in the latest reports its down 4k on last year Q2.
https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Registration/Reg_Q2_2018.pdf
Q2 2017 (177,884) Q2 2018 (173,725)


But put that in context of population growth...

The total number of residents in the Republic rose by 53,900 last year t

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irelands-population-growth-five-times-eu-average-472747.html

Private rental reform isn't going to solve that problem.

 

[The Horseman]

Its old data at this point. Also could you not find your own data sources?

Maybe we should link to the articles and reports.
https://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/03/07/mick-landlords-aren-t-fleeing-the-market-in-droves

I see in the latest reports its down 4k on last year Q2.
https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Registration/Reg_Q2_2018.pdf
Q2 2017 (177,884) Q2 2018 (173,725)


But put that in context of population growth...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irelands-population-growth-five-times-eu-average-472747.html

Private rental reform isn't going to solve that problem.

Exactly landlords are leaving the market to be replaced by Institutional ones which would account for the drop in landlord numbers but the increase in tenancies.

 

[Bronte]

The number of landlords registered with RTB has been increasing since 2015.

Wrong. The number of registrations has increased. It does not mean the number of landlords has increased. The RTB has a team to increase compliance with registration. That's all.

 

[Bronte]

Rents have never been higher, interest rates never lower. We should be seeing new landlords flooding the market chasing the profits to be had. But we're not. That in itself speaks volumes. Rather than trying to add yet another layer of red tape, the government should start getting out of the way.
.

Because the costs to get in, despite the low mortgage rates, and the red tape, plus the higher taxes have created a perfect storm to stop private investors.

 

[Firefly]

Exactly landlords are leaving the market to be replaced by Institutional ones which would account for the drop in landlord numbers but the increase in tenancies.

I agree with this and thing this could be a disaster for tenants. Ever increasing regulations and restraints will result in small landlords leaving the market as you say. These will be replaced by larger players who have the resources to comply with the regulations but will become very adept at getting rid of unwanted tenants by playing within the rules. In fact they will be able to bombard tenants with notices and tie the RTB up in circles with legal documents and notices. I also fear that a smaller number of large players could more easily influence politicians.

From the tenants perspective they could very well end up dealing with the landlord company by ringing a 1890 type number and being answered offshore....

 

[The Horseman]

I agree with this and thing this could be a disaster for tenants. Ever increasing regulations and restraints will result in small landlords leaving the market as you say. These will be replaced by larger players who have the resources to comply with the regulations but will become very adept at getting rid of unwanted tenants by playing within the rules. In fact they will be able to bombard tenants with notices and tie the RTB up in circles with legal documents and notices. I also fear that a smaller number of large players could more easily influence politicians.

From the tenants perspective they could very well end up dealing with the landlord company by ringing a 1890 type number and being answered offshore....

It definitely will be for the majority of tenants. A work colleague of mine was a tenant of one and he was charged for everything and I mean everything.

I am a landlord and I would normally let tenants off with some things if they are genuine tenants.

I completely agree with you regarding how they will operate. Once they get a large enough foothold in the rental market the landscape is definitely going to change for the tenants and I don't think for the better.

 

[Firefly]

I completely agree with you regarding how they will operate. Once they get a large enough foothold in the rental market the landscape is definitely going to change for the tenants and I don't think for the better.

A colleague of mine, who I would regard as being "well connected" told me that even more rights are on the way for tenants. He didn't go into details but said it related to residency rights. This will further push the small landlord out. He thought that the best way for a property play was thus to just invest in one or more of the large REITs. They will have to resources to play the game a make a ton of money.

 

[AlbacoreA]

That's what many landlord would be thinking. Sell up and invest in a Reit.

At some point the market will change and the REits will sell up pretty quick and move elsewhere.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Wrong. The number of registrations has increased. It does not mean the number of landlords has increased. The RTB has a team to increase compliance with registration. That's all.

The report lists the number of landlords separately..

I'm sure if someone dug into it t there would a number of tenants per landlord and you see the REits there.

 

[AlbacoreA]

This thread is turning into a duplicate of the last and it ends up being a monologue from one poster.

The govt could use the examples from other countries to improve the market. Instead they make it worse. So it's a bit futile suggesting a plan that requires action from the govt.

 

[The Horseman]

A colleague of mine, who I would regard as being "well connected" told me that even more rights are on the way for tenants. He didn't go into details but said it related to residency rights. This will further push the small landlord out. He thought that the best way for a property play was thus to just invest in one or more of the large REITs. They will have to resources to play the game a make a ton of money.

I am not sure what additional rights the State could give tenants regarding tenancy for privately owned property. If you try to change ownership rights of private property be it rented or not I would expect a backlash from the public at large.

 

[Firefly]

I believe it's more to do with tenants being able to remain in a house if it being sold