Recession ahead? How to cope....

Regarding bailing out, it depends on whether the recession is just in Ireland, broadly across the english speaking countries or global. In the past some of the continental economies have done well while the likes of the UK and the US were in recession or doing badly. However things are more globalised now, so a recession may affect ALL countries. In that case emigration might not really be an option.

I agree with HelloJed that it's very tough to find work in Germany at the moment. That's partially due to their more formal culture regarding career paths. However it's also partially due to the fact that there's high unemployment there. IF a recession is localised and the German economy (no 1 exporters) should be unaffected and actually take off, then it may get easier to find work there.

Regarding language, not all Irish are monolingual. The Irish that do emigrate to non-english speaking countries generally do learn the local language (and are better at doing so than the Brits IMHO - something an english person also told me)
 
America this year for the first since 1929 borrowed more than it earned thats a warning. I think the big thing about talking up a recession, a lot of people can get jobs now - however as a previous poster commented the concept of saving for something doesn't exist now "instant gratification". In a highly commercial society like Ireland - where 3 bedrooms houses are described as ideal starter homes - its the creation of expectation.

People who have a job and a house want a better job and a better house. This leads to a level of frustation\unhappiness which leads to the type of comments "it cant last" or "the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language is going to fall out of it soon"
Some people writing on this site in 2001 were saying house prices were too high - if you had taken that advice then it would have been costly.

the bottom line is anyone concerned about paying a mortgage can sell now and remove the burden of that debt.

As has been commented on I work a lot in France, Spain and Germany and those places are hurting - infrastructure aside I wouldnt swop here for there.

the main thing in my experience is avoid ESRI\OECD Central banks the lot and do whats best for you - two words "TAKE CONTROL"
 
Barnes said:
As has been commented on I work a lot in France, Spain and Germany and those places are hurting - infrastructure aside I wouldnt swop here for there.
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Having moved to France I would have to disagree.... Ireland got drunk on quick and easy money but the party could come to a sharp end. Large personal debt, hopeless infrastucture and a culture built on booze and shopping centers is not where I want to be at... (flame on :)
 
diarmuidc said:
Having moved to France I would have to disagree.... Ireland got drunk on quick and easy money but the party could come to a sharp end. Large personal debt, hopeless infrastucture and a culture built on booze and shopping centers is not where I want to be at... (flame on :)
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Yup, I agree 100% with the drunkeness on borrowed money point. We're going to be the laughing stock of Europe/the world. And so the image of the 'drunken Irish fool' perpetuates itself. We were once a nation of saints and scholars, which we've turned our backs on in our quest for new-found-wealth. All we are left with now is one big cultural identity crisis that, as diarmuidc rightly points out, revolves around shopping centres, pubs and consumerism. A spike in O'Connell street exemplefies the ignorance of the Irish. We've had our chance and we've blown it.
 
Barnes said:
As has been commented on I work a lot in France, Spain and Germany and those places are hurting - infrastructure aside I wouldnt swop here for there.
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But in the medium term their growth is based on something a bit more solid than it is here - namely exports rather than consumer debt. I'd take France and Germany over Ireland as far as future prospects are concerned.
 
CelloPoint said:
Yup, I agree 100% with the drunkeness on borrowed money point. We're going to be the laughing stock of Europe/the world. And so the image of the 'drunken Irish fool' perpetuates itself. We were once a nation of saints and scholars, which we've turned our backs upon in our quest for new-found-wealth. All we are left with now is one big cultural identity crisis that, as diarmuidc rightly points out, revolves around shopping centres, pubs and consumerism. A spike in O'Connell street exemplefies the ignorance of the Irish. We've had our chance and we've blown it.
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I like the spike to tell you the truth and vistors from abroad have commented on it aswell. To add a new structure to O'Connell is a very very difficult thing to do as you do not want to distract from the existing buildings. It had to be minimistic and it will stand the test of time. (IMO)

As regards the rest of your post, we are no different from any other country which went from been poor (dont forget 50,000 people a year had to leave this country before) to playing catch up. When the money dries up and we become more european (and less boston) then the country will be on tract again.
 
Slightly off topic.
I remember some guys from Sheffield Steel giving a talk about their products in College a couple of years ago.
They were originally the guys who were to supply the stainless steel for the spike.
Basically they were unhappy with the specification of stainless steel requested - since Dublin is close to the sea, they were afraid that salt in the air would cause the low specification stainless steel to rust.

When their request that a higher specification stainless steel was refused, they pulled out of the project as they didn't want their name associated with any potential future problems that would occur.
I keep an eye on the spike with interest to see how it will age...
 
Calina said:
But in the medium term their growth is based on something a bit more solid than it is here - namely exports rather than consumer debt. I'd take France and Germany over Ireland as far as future prospects are concerned.
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In the medium term you may be right. At present it's doom and gloom in many continental economies with high unemployment. If you're living there, speak the lingo and are aware of what's going on, this can be quite depressing and get you down. IF Ireland goes into a recession in the next few years, and IF the recession is LOCAL, and does NOT affect our continental neighbours, then a move there might be a good bet in the medium term. However for the moment, I wouldn't be rushing over there as jobs are much easier to find here. You don't have to buy a house to live here, and if you put your mind to it, you can ignore the rampant drunken consumerism - there's more to the country than that ;-)
 
If there was a serious recession, people aged 25-35 would desert Ireland for the likes of Australia or NZ in their droves. They would typically be : not married, not have kids, and not really tied down - although they might have a big mortgage, sure let the bank have the keys back...

Most of this age-group have done it before, for a year or two at some stage, and wouldn't be afraid of doing it all again. As for the grass not always being greener, true, but at least there's sunshine in December!

More importantly, this is also the generation that is buying those record number of new homes, receiving the record mortgage approvals, getting the 100% mortgages, the 40-year loans ... i.e. the ones who will feel the pinch first.

If house prices started dropping 10% per year, I can't see many of these folks hanging around too long ... "sure wasn't the year in Sydney deadly craic!"
 
Maybe if they have sought after skills this would be possible. However it is not that easy to emigrate to australia you are also competing with the brits and many others who see australia as being desirable. Ask the thousands of illegal irish there about immigration. It is also going down the american route of clamping down on illegal immigration. So the droves returning from australia might end up being bigger than the immigrants going there. Remember australia has a points system which is not all that easy to qualify for.
 
evan said:
Maybe if they have sought after skills this would be possible. However it is not that easy to emigrate to australia you are also competing with the brits and many others who see australia as being desirable. Ask the thousands of illegal irish there about immigration. It is also going down the american route of clamping down on illegal immigration. So the droves returning from australia might end up being bigger than the immigrants going there. Remember australia has a points system which is not all that easy to qualify for.
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But 4 year extended business visas are pretty easy to get these can usually be extended for further 4 years.
 
evan said:
Maybe if they have sought after skills this would be possible. However it is not that easy to emigrate to australia you are also competing with the brits and many others who see australia as being desirable. Ask the thousands of illegal irish there about immigration. It is also going down the american route of clamping down on illegal immigration. So the droves returning from australia might end up being bigger than the immigrants going there. Remember australia has a points system which is not all that easy to qualify for.
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I have always put a value of about 100K on my aussie passport because if ireland should implode i'll need it quickly.
 
Yea there pretty easy if you have already run a business here and have money to invest there. again that does not apply to alot of people and hardly to the 25-35 year old demographic. If you have a successful business in ireland you are not going to want to ditch it for australia. Basically australia wants the type of people who are least likely to go there
 
bearishbull said:
theres plenty of room on the plane to china.
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...and unfortunately 1 billion Chinese when you get there, who naturally enough are not going to worry too much about keeping a decadent westerner - who knows no foreign languages - in the style to which he/she has become accustomed. Tis the reality.
 
Bootdog said:
"Engineers, electrical estimators, draftsmen and bakers [bankers???] are also in high demand in all parts of the country, particularly regional areas."
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no, that probably is bakers....the 'skills required' list from DIMIA (dept of immigration in aus) can be quite eclectic at times!
 
You have to be a particular type of person to want to settle down in Australia's "regional areas".
 
For some more down to earth creative suggestions, check out some of the following links to find out how people are managing quite comfortably on an average of 20% less income.

www.simpleliving.net or www.newamericandream.org

Or if you want to give it all up for something in the Irish countryside, check out www.sustainable.ie or www.thevillage.ie

Last time I checked (a couple of months ago), you could buy a new-build family home for under €150k in Cloughjordan (Co Tipperary), or purchase your own site to build an eco-home.

There are many options no matter what your choice of (financial) lifestyle. And as they say, even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat!
 
StoppedClock said:
But 4 year extended business visas are pretty easy to get these can usually be extended for further 4 years.
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yeah, but they've got pretty severe work restrictions with those visas now (they tightened up the laws in 2003). Also, people who would qualify for a four year business visa would probably qualify for 'permanent residency' anyway
 
Australia is also a lot more expensive to get to, compared with low cost flights to Uk and Europe.

Within Europe there is also the advantage of more harmonisation between social welfare and pension benefits.

However, one obvious disadvantage within Europe is the languages. While English is universal business language, as a native speaker I often have to repeat myself when talking to a non-native speaker.

Another problem is different tax and accounting systems so that an accountant or hr person trained and working in Ireland does not really have a transferable skillset to Europe, whereas it is more easily transferable to Uk, the States or Australia.
 
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