Ratio of administrators to consultants in the HSE is 6.2 to 1


There must be a paper system in operation, which calculates the pay taking account of everything you say.

Given that a computer program can be designed for anything for which rules can be written, what went wrong?
 
I presume there are dozens of local systems all around the country. Whether they feed into anything central?
This is all presumption on my part by the way
 
It means I have no idea of what systems the HSE has. I'm just guessing in response to your question about them having a central system to record all the info.
I'm saying that there are so much complications within the grades and so many grades and so many layers of agreements both locally and nationally that they may not have a central system at all. Just lots of local ones
 
Often the front line realise that everything works fabulously well when the management take off on junkets/conferences.

Why do management conferences/junkets take place during normal working weeks?

I'm always fascinated that work places thrive when management are absent.

Absenteeism is not always about front line staff.

Marion
 
Sophrosyne said:
Often they find themselves explaining this to senior managers who have no idea what they are talking about.
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As they and the people they manage are usually members of of the same union maybe Liam Doran could explain or someone from the Dept of Health & Children, they created this monster no-one understands.
 
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Ineffective management is a different but connected issue.

For services to function they need adequate and appropriate personnel to be present to deliver the service.

Currently, the number and nature of personnel present is not apparent.

Surely, the need for this is self-evident.
 
Marion said:
Absenteeism is not always about front line staff.
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I don't know when the military term "front-line staff" started being used presumably when the "wars" on hunger, crime, drugs etc broke out. It's a meaningless emotive term that hides more than it clarifies.

If you want to know who goes absent and when from the HSEs, please refer back to my post #14, it couldn't be clearer
 
This thread has gone in so many directions that I am finding it difficult to keep up. Hospital management, the government, the unions, the administration staff, Sick Leave, etc have been fingered for blame.

The fact is our hospital system is short of nurses because the rewards of even working in the UK ailing hospital system are infinitely more inviting than here. Our younger nursing people are better educated than nurses who came up through the hospital system. They are not fools. They can make more money working abroad. They can have nursing courses free of charge that cost an arm and a leg here. They have better working conditions. Even the UK government gives them generous allowances towards their accommodation. A nurse seeking far bigger money than in these parts of europe can leg it to the Middle East for a few years and on return can pay cash for a house instead of begging for a mortgage. Sometimes I wonder why any young nurse would continue to work here.

Even one poster suggested that Liam Doran is the cause of all that is not good in our system. Newsflash! Liam Doran is paid to represent nurses and midwives through his trade union, he is not the conscience of the HSE. Liam Doran after a precarious start in the INMO (or whatever it was previously called) has become a figure that many other trade unionists would want representing them now. I wonder how long more the INMO will be able to keep him. I wish he was representing me. I know Purple will have something to say on this. Incidentally, Purple with his anti trades union views has probably become the greatest recruiting agent for any trades union.

Sick Leave and hospitals:- Nurses, Doctors, Care Assistants, Attendants, Porters, Ward Clerks etc are more open to infection than most of us posting here. I hope nobody contributing here believes that that dispensers at the doors of hospitals play a huge part in the prevention of infections. The dispensers look good, but that is about all. Nurses in their hourly lives would be open to more infections than most. If you have problems taking this in then have a look at the MRSA test alone conducted on all patients on admission. And that is only the start. Add in shortage of staff, night duty, surgery, wound cleaning, etc and there is a just reason for more sick leave. How many medical staff are physically threatened every weekend in Accident & Emergency? Don't forget hospital enforced sick leave either; if it is considered that a nurse with some infectuous illnesses would be a threat to patient care then sick leave is imposed on the nurse.

Somebody mentioned PPARS. I think we discussed this to death in several previous threads.

Nearly Forgot:- I think it was Delboy who informed us that privatisation of our hospital system is not on the cards. I brought this to the attention of several hospital staff grades yesterday and I won't bore you other than to say it was treated with guffaws (no disrespect to Delboy).
 
You are right Leper, just give them all more money. That'll sort things out.
 
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I don't see any moral difference between the CEO of a 'privatised' hospital, whose only concern is profit\shareholders and not health of patients (or his own staff). And Liam Doran, whose only concern appears to be the remuneration of his members and not health of patients (or his own members).
 
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So in say, 20 years time, most Irish hospitals now public (James, Mater, Blanch, Sligo, CUH etc etc) will be privatised?
 
Delboy said:
I presume there are dozens of local systems all around the country. Whether they feed into anything central?
This is all presumption on my part by the way
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One problem they had in implementing that systems is that there were dozens of systems in operation within individual hospitals, much of it not on paper. Different departments had evolved different practices going back over the years, in newer hospitals that had merged a number of older hospitals some departments even had multiple systems in place encompassing the practices in the source hospitals. There was a lack of engagement with PPARS due to fears some of these legacy practices would have to change.

Some departments still manage staffing rotas, holidays and time in lieu using a central book, or big chart on a wall, with staff submitting the details to the payroll system after the fact!
 
There can only be one person driving change .That person has to be the Minister .We need to start asking how the Billions in taxes and the billions borrowed in our name are spent. Government Tax/ borrow they are the ones responsible for any waste .
 
jjm2016 said:
There can only be one person driving change .That person has to be the Minister .We need to start asking how the Billions in taxes and the billions borrowed in our name are spent. Government Tax/ borrow they are the ones responsible for any waste .
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Change driven by one person is rarely, if ever successful. Also, the minister does not have the authority to drive change where it's needed here.

Without the unions' backing, local administration are unable to change local practices, and the unions aren't in the business of agreeing to increased efficiency if there isn't a significant upside for them.
 
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Delboy said:
So in say, 20 years time, most Irish hospitals now public (James, Mater, Blanch, Sligo, CUH etc etc) will be privatised?
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20 Years? You won't have to wait that long. Privatisation will take place well before.
 

Unbelievable!
 
Leo
PPARS waa pulled because the minister and the government of the Day did not put the effort in to streamlining and reforms For it to Work.There were lots of local arrangements that needed to be changed
Example like an allowances given to people to close gates in days gone bye passed on to staff Who had no gates to close. Things like this should have being sorted out and PPARS should have gone ahead .Unions are not the problem Government Will is the problem.Union members pay taxes also lots have Retired Early rather than put up with the miss management they see every day.
 
The Minister(s) has no responsibility for running the health service on a day-to-day basis. The minister and Dept of Health are responsible for policy and Tony O'Brien and the various heads of the other HSEs are responsible for running them in line with policy. Mary Harney established the HSE, just one at the time, to absolve the politicians from any responsibility for executing policy.
 
I operate the PPARs everyday, it wasn't totally pulled, it was in areas that hadn't gone live.

Off the top of my head, the former mid west, North west, midlands, st James hospital are all fully live. The western health board were next but it was pulled after months of work done preparing for go live.

The main issue at the time was the cost as the complexities were not fully appreciated at the time.

It's a good system and from what we were working with it was life changing.

I can now go back 12 years and get all my sick days in a matter of minutes.
 
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