Ratio of administrators to consultants in the HSE is 6.2 to 1

In fairness , Delboy no group of workers would tolerate such an egregious breach of contract as that foisted on consultants , so egregious in fact that the Attorney General advised the Government not to appeal the award to the two consultants as basically the Government didn't have a leg to stand on.
This decision is why we have industrial legislation which protects workers , eventually in the case of the consultants - after all nobody wants to see employers blithely ignore agreed contracts do they ?
Betcha the Government is dreading the result of the living out allowance case ?
 
For the record:- I never met Purple's wife and I was trying to keep the posts on a non-personal basis, nice dude that I am . I don't doubt that there are take-a-few-bob-from-anybody doctors around, but I reckon most of them are honest. Like Purple pointed out, I have never seen one doctor sue another. One thing doctors have a fear of is the legal litigation system where many of them suffer. Ask any gynaecologist.

There is no workable alternative to a doctor who issues medical certificates for patients. Look at some of the posts on this thread. We have one guy who would sack an employee who failed to show because of 'flu although a useless flu injection had been received. Is it no wonder, we need trades unions?

As for Purple (I love the guy) I am glad he gets about enough not to need trades union representation. Imagine Purple in an ordinary job, posting constantly (7.3K posts todate) most during working hours, consequently, getting sacked as his employer thinks he should be using his working time more purposely. Please note, I am not objecting to Purple posting whenever he wishes but let's say he gets sacked by somebody like Mathepac. I bet Purple would like the likes of Liam Doran to be representing him.

Oh! yes . . . the innocence of Delboy:-
Delboy said:
The Irish health service as it is and as it always will be.
Click to expand...

After privatisation (not too many years away) of the hospital system we won't have a health service. We'll have the private health insurers dictating what we can or cannot do and will have an Excess laden system which will frighten us into staying at home. Is the private hospital system the answer to all our ills? Ask any of the nurses who are leaving the private hospitals? (Some of the private hospitals have difficulty in retaining doctors too). I know nurses are leaving the HSE hospitals too. But, lots of us tend to ignore those leaving private hospitals.
 
Rambling post with not a lot to it except a few digs at other posters.

I don't see any oncoming privatisation of the hospital system. Thats just hyperbole.
We still have the highest number of registered nurses as pointed out previously so if they are leaving public/private hospitals, it's not impacting the overall % v's other countries.
The facts clearly show ever increasing budgets for the health service while the same problems arise every year...trolley crisis, long waiting lists, cancelled procedures etc. So I see no change in the health service even if another few billion were thrown it. Wages would be the main beneficiary.
 
I cannot see where it was pointed out previously that we have the highest number of registered nurses ( per capita presumably ) .
Perhaps you could point me in that direction ?
 
Deiseblue said:
I cannot see where it was pointed out previously that we have the highest number of registered nurses ( per capita presumably ) .
Perhaps you could point me in that direction ?
Click to expand...
There's good info here. We are well above the OECD average 12.4 per 1000 of population against OECD average of 9.1 per 1000. That's 50% more than the UK.

Can somebody quote the above info as I'm on Deise's ignore list (I upset him a while ago) and he won't see my post.
 
Leper said:
For the record:- I never met Purple's wife
Click to expand...
I wish I could say the same

Leper said:
There is no workable alternative to a doctor who issues medical certificates for patients.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I was just suggesting that they are no guarantee that there's no messing going on.

Leper said:
As for Purple (I love the guy) I am glad he gets about enough not to need trades union representation.
Click to expand...
Love you too . I'm delighted I have never really had to deal with a Union. From speaking to hard working friends in the Public Sector they seem to be a nightmare to deal with.

I'd love an ordinary job where I could work ordinary hours but I don;t have one so I'll have to keep working irregular hours. Bloody customers in different time zones...
Anyway, we measure people on value added and output, not hours worked. Some of our best paid guys on the shop floor work the shortest hours. If you get your work done and make money for the business and want to only work short hours (35 or 38 hours a week, that sort of thing) that's fine. The rest of us work 45 to 55 hours a week.
 
Deiseblue said:
I cannot see where it was pointed out previously that we have the highest number of registered nurses ( per capita presumably ) .
Perhaps you could point me in that direction ?
Click to expand...

I still see nothing to suggest to support your assertion regarding the highest number of registered nurses per capita .
If you are referring to Firefly's post #34 helpfully ranking OECD countries then we are seventh not first !
The figure of 12.4 nurses per 1000 population is a 2013 figure which is presumably derived from the Nursing & Midwifery board , in 2014 he board removed 1803 nurses from the register & in 2015 the board removed 3592 nurses from the register.
To my astonishment there are approx 14000 nurses who are fully registered but classed as inactive who were to receive a letter from the board asking them to come back to work ! - per the Indo of 8/9/2016.
To say the least it should be interesting to see up to date OECD rankings , is it any wonder that Simon Harris hopes to see 1000 nurses being recruited next year & hopefully doctors as there is a dearth of same.
In the interests of clarity there are approx 35,000 Public Sector nurses & given the population of 4,757,976 that is 7.356 nurses per 1000 head of population.
 
Deiseblue said:
In the interests of clarity there are approx 35,000 Public Sector nurses & given the population of 4,757,976 that is 7.356 nurses per 1000 head of population.
Click to expand...
How many private sector nurses are there?
Were the nurses which were removed from the register working or retired/ no longer in the sector?
 
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@Deiseblue, I think it's safe to assume that the OECD gathers information in a standard form across all geographies therefore they are comparing like with like.

Using the "Health Services Employment: Section 6 Grade level detail - Overview by Grade Group: December 15 to Dec 2016" the HSEs state there is a total of 35,353 WTE nurses employed in the HSEs and Section 38 contractors. Strangely when I add their own numbers I get 35,430 WTEs.

Using their WTE number of 35,353 that equates to a headcount of 41,077 as of the same date. Using your population number, 4,757,976 and the HSEs' headcount number, that gives 8.63 nurses / 1,000 population. These nurses must be paid, admin'd, pensioned, managed and backfilled when they "go on the sick".

The HSEs numbers mean that expressed as WTEs, nurse occupy 33% of HSE/S38 posts or as head count 34%.

I still can't find numbers for private facilities who are not S38/39 contractors.
 
I don't know where the number of nurses figure comes from, but if it's total registration with An Bord Altranais (sp?) it includes quite a few people I know who don't usually work, but keep their registration active and pick up the odd shift to keep their sanity or to cover whatever their kids are looking for this week.
 
What really matters to any organization is the number of personnel present each day.

In this day and age, I don’t know why the Health Minister or any other minister for that matter does not have or asked for a computer program to let him/her know at the very least:

· Grade

· Job title

· Location

· Who is present

· Who is absent

· Nature of absence

Other essential could be added.

The unique identifier should be the PPSN.
 
Or as my classes (Further Ed) regularly ask:

"What right do you have to get this information"

Marion
 
Not sure.

Snowflakes sense of entitlement perhaps? All about Me.

Also, It might impact on grants for some people, but not all.


Marion
 
Perhaps.

However, often front line managers have to schedule around annual leave, flexi leave, sick leave, training leave, mismatched work-sharing patterns and various types of other leave and career breaks.

Often they find themselves explaining this to senior managers who have no idea what they are talking about.

In order to manage large organizations, attendance patterns - including the bottom line, who is present, who are they and where are they - need to be visible to all levels of management, including the minister.
 
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I'm in total agreement.

They might ask what my rights are - but I am well able to explain my role.

I was just making a point that people can be difficult about information.

Marion
 
Sophrosyne said:
In this day and age, I don’t know why the Health Minister or any other minister for that matter does not have or asked for a computer program to let him/her know at the very least:
Click to expand...
They tried that...it was called PPars. There were so many grades, categories within grades, allowances, expenses, local agreements...all going back to the dawn of time that the thing couldn't get off the ground, despite tens of millions being spent on it
 
Marion said:
I'm in total agreement.

They might ask what my rights are - but I am well able to explain my role.

I was just making a point that people can be difficult about information.

Marion
Click to expand...

I agree.

However, what I am proposing is a program to monitor attendance.

Sometimes managers even one or two steps above the front line do not appreciate or fully appreciate the amount of possible absences and the effect that has in managing the front line.

Also, organizations from time to time need to take a step back and understand why they exist.
 
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