RAS tenant not paying rent

murphaph said:
Folks, the council are just going to let the agreement run its course and then walk away, leaving these non-payers to become very much the OP's problem. He should really seek some legal advice on this now while he's getting the rent each month. Doing nothing is not good advice here.
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If he sought legal advice at this stage then I think he'd be wasting his money.

If the tenant refuses to pay the rent then they can be taken to court, this could be in the process as we speak.

It could be the case that the rent arrears are deducted at source from the tenants income, especially if it is a SW payment.

The council are still obligated the provide housing for this tenant either way.
 
I've said my piece. I wouldn't be sitting back in a totally passive role here. The whole idea that the council remains responsible for housing people who refuse to pay any rent confuses me. I can't square that with the fact that councils evict people for non payment of rent. I think without the complete set of contracts signed by all parties, it's impossible to give solid advice. My RAS contract signed my me, my tenant and the council includes clauses that place an onus on the tenant to pay the council. Not paying them is a breach of their tenancy agreement itself. Breaching this agreement is grounds for termination thereof BUT I would want this clarified by my solicitor (but I'd be trying to deal with the council to get them to pick up my legal bill if they really want this tenant out).
 
Hi Guys

Many thanks for all your advice, I am going to ring the PRTB tomorrow and see where I stand with them. I will post the outcome. In my opinion data protection laws have been broken here for a start and based on the imformation here Wexford Co Co want me to do the dirty work for them and leave me with all the mess
 
lopin said:
Hi Guys

Many thanks for all your advice, I am going to ring the PRTB tomorrow and see where I stand with them. I will post the outcome. In my opinion data protection laws have been broken here for a start and based on the imformation here Wexford Co Co want me to do the dirty work for them and leave me with all the mess
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Is there any possiblity you could scan the lease and put it on here please - just delete the names and property address.

I would in no way rely on the PRTB by phone, you need to have it in writing from them before you do anything.
 
murphaph said:
My RAS contract signed my me, my tenant and the council includes clauses that place an onus on the tenant to pay the council. Not paying them is a breach of their tenancy agreement itself. Breaching this agreement is grounds for termination thereof.
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So it's one contract signed by 3 parties. Being logical if the tenant breaches a condition than you would have grounds to terminate the tenancy agreement. But you would also have to abide by the PRTB rules. It's a bit messy this with 3 parties. Can the council cancel your tenancy agreement with the tenant if the tenant doesn't pay them?

I wonder what county council's normally do to tenants who don't pay them? I've read some of the PRTB cases but never have I seen one with a county council involved.
 
Bronte said:
I wonder what county council's normally do to tenants who don't pay them?
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In a previous tenancy - my tenant was eventually (after several years of non-payment to council unknown to me) moved into a council owned house.

my tenant begged to NOT be moved, they preferred my house and neighborhood. BUT tbh they did themselves no favors and eventually they got moved by the council.

It had NOTHING to do with me - nor was i EVER asked to evict my tenant by the council. The only reason i ever found out was when the council stopped paying me any money one month - I called up to complain - and they told me they thought my tenant had vacated months ago - since they had not received any money from them. When i told them they were wrong, that she was still living there - the payments continued.

I appreciate that lots of people like to give advice here - but many of them have zero real life knowledge about what they are giving advice on - they just share an opinion. ho hum.
 
I just spoke to PRTB, they informed me that I cant evict the tenant as the agreement is with RAS.

The following clause is the reason why Wexford want me to evict tenant

5. LANDLORD’S OBLIGATIONS TO THE HOUSING AUTHORITY
In consideration of the Guarantee being provided by the Housing Authority to the
Landlord, the Landlord will:
5.1. On receiving written notice from the Housing Authority that the Tenant has
not complied with its obligations to the Housing Authority, immediately
proceed to terminate this tenancy in accordance with clause 6.
6. TERMINATION
6.1. Subject to clause 6.2, termination of this tenancy is governed by the
Residential Tenancies Act 2004.
6.2. During the first six months of the Term, the Landlord shall not be entitled to
terminate this tenancy other than on the first ground set out in section 34 of
the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, namely the Tenant has failed to comply
with any of its obligations in relation to this tenancy.

Any advice welcome
 
I would not take PRTBs advice for a start. Their opinion is as vald as most of the opinions you are getting on here.

Did the wexford CC give you written notice to evict your tenant? If not, then read all my advice above, do nothing. Untill such time as you stop recieving rent, or a term of your lease is broken, there is nothing you can do.

If you do get written notice to evict from the CC then simply forward the document to your tenant, and be clear that its not your fault, and that you have no interest in evicting them. They can fight the eviction if they choose to, or they can resolve the unpaid monies. You should have nothing to do with this problem, it has nothing to do with you, it cant!
 
lopin said:
I just spoke to PRTB, they informed me that I cant evict the tenant as the agreement is with RAS.

The following clause is the reason why Wexford want me to evict tenant

5. LANDLORD’S OBLIGATIONS TO THE HOUSING AUTHORITY
In consideration of the Guarantee being provided by the Housing Authority to the
Landlord, the Landlord will:
5.1. On receiving written notice from the Housing Authority that the Tenant has
not complied with its obligations to the Housing Authority, immediately
proceed to terminate this tenancy in accordance with clause 6.
6. TERMINATION
6.1. Subject to clause 6.2, termination of this tenancy is governed by the
Residential Tenancies Act 2004.
6.2. During the first six months of the Term, the Landlord shall not be entitled to
terminate this tenancy other than on the first ground set out in section 34 of
the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, namely the Tenant has failed to comply
with any of its obligations in relation to this tenancy.

Any advice welcome
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The PRTB are correct. According to the law regarding leases/agreements:


" A lease cannot contain terms that contradict the legal rights of tenants and landlords. If this happens, your legal rights as a landlord or tenant supersede the terms in the lease."

It is clear that the clause inserted by the council breaches your rights.
 
Bronte said:
Wonderful stuff this. The council want you to evict a tenant, who is doing nothing wrong contractually or otherwise with you.

Can you imagine the trouble you'd be in if you evicted, that tenant would righly be down on you with a ton of bricks from the PRTB if you evicted her.

5K is a lot, normally people in this situation would be paying a very low amount, so those arrears could be a few years old at this stage, and the council have done nothing about it, and are now trying to apply pressure on you to sort it out.

Did the council tell you to act by letter or phone? I would be amazed if they put it in writing.

Do you have a contract with the council that states you are to house this tenant, if yes, how can they get out of paying you?
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Hi Bronte

Wexford Co Co have instructed me in writing to evict tenant in fact they emailed me the the relevant paperwork to send to tenant, ie 14 & 28 day notice with all the tenants details filled in.
 
Its his problem if the Council stop paying him. Its his problem when the contract finishes with the council.You dont think these people will just move out. My advice is to do as council say and give notice before this becomes your problem. ..
 
lopin said:
Hi Bronte

Wexford Co Co have instructed me in writing to evict tenant in fact they emailed me the the relevant paperwork to send to tenant, ie 14 & 28 day notice with all the tenants details filled in.
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This is amazing. First off, do not do this. Send this letter to the PRTB by email and ask them is it ok to evict the tenant. I would only do what the PRTB advises you in writing.

If you don't believe me, go down to Threshold, pretend you are the tenant and that the landlords has shown you this Co.Co letter and that he intends to evict you and ask can he.

Someone advised you to go to a solicitor/court. My understanding of the reasoning behind the PRTB is that in the event of a dispute, one first has to go via the PRTB, which BTW is useless for landlords, but only after that can you go the court route.

All of this is a bit pedantic, you're being paid, so I'd keep the tenant sweet. Tell the Co. Co in writing that you will evict the tenant when the PRTB tells you it's ok to do so.

Please understand that what the PRTB or Threshold tell you will have a grain of truth, it could be wrong advice. But if you get it in writing from the PRTB, then I consider that you are covered if you evict the tenant.

Please tell us what the PRTB tells you to do.

One thing in all this is true, no matter what kind of contact you, the tenant or the Co. Co. have, it cannot have a clause that is contrary to the legislation.
 
Are the Council willing to indemnify you in the event of a PRTB judgement against you for wrongful eviction? Perhaps if they were to provide you with such indemnity you could evict on their say-so and if it does end up in PRTB they would be the ones paying up.

If nothing else it would ensure that the Council is a bit more careful if they are the ones paying for a wrongful eviction.
 
Mrs Vimes said:
Are the Council willing to indemnify you in the event of a PRTB judgement against you for wrongful eviction? .
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That's great advice. There is no way the council will write that letter, but it nicely puts the onus back on them.
 
Yep, I'd be asking the council in writing for their written indemnity in case of illegal eviction. However, I wouldn't sit back and let the clock run out on this contract because the council sound sort of irrational in their behaviour. They are just as likely to cease payment to you as soon as the contract with you expires. The tenants are not going to leave because some contract they don't care about has expired and then it's all your problem with no revenue coming in. It's not something you can bury your head in the sand about I'm afraid and LLs are often public enemy number one so the council will have no fear in treating you shoddily. Joe Duffy listeners don't care about a ripped off LL!
 
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