Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job. ERSI

[Simeon]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Nobody is talking about breaking the law. I'm merely stating that as an employer, I have the right to employ who I like. And so does any other employer. I go through an interview process and in the following week make a decision. Now, tell me where I'm going wrong.

 

[ajapale]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

If you comply with the law of the land and any industry regulations then you are not going wrong at all!

 

[Padraigb]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

If you comply with the law of the land and any industry regulations then you are not going wrong at all!

The "law of the land" is quite extensive. While the Employment Equality Acts are not wholly clear (perhaps it might be better to say "easy to read") on selection processes, the Director of Equality Investigation has, in handling specific cases, addressed questions of discriminatory selection processes. While most of the cases of which I am aware involve discrimination on grounds of gender or marital status, discrimination on grounds of race is also covered by the same legislation. Race is defined broadly, to include ethnic or national origins.

Put simply: you are legally required to avoid discrimination in your selection procedures; the onus is own you to be able to show that you did not discriminate.

For a summary description of the law, see [broken link removed]

 

[Simeon]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

At the heel of the hunt, it is within the employers right to hire whom he/she wants to. As most employers have a keen eye on the bottom line, I would imagine that the best (for the company) man/woman wins.

Not true, under the Employment Equality Acts. See http://www.equality.ie/index.asp?locID=17&docID=-1 and note that there cannot be discrimination on access to employment.

Who is talking about access to employment? The job seeker has access to the interview but that is as far as it goes. The future employer decides who to hire and is within his/her right to so choose. So when you say that my initial statement was "not true", I don't understand.

The "law of the land" is quite extensive. While the Employment Equality Acts are not wholly clear (perhaps it might be better to say "easy to read") on selection processes, the Director of Equality Investigation has, in handling specific cases, addressed questions of discriminatory selection processes. While most of the cases of which I am aware involve discrimination on grounds of gender or marital status, discrimination on grounds of race is also covered by the same legislation. Race is defined broadly, to include ethnic or national origins.

Put simply: you are legally required to avoid discrimination in your selection procedures; the onus is own you to be able to show that you did not discriminate.

For a summary description of the law, see [broken link removed]

I don't need to read anything more about my status as a future employer. All I know is that if I advertise a post I expect to be able to choose who best fills that post. I don't have a chip on my shoulder nor would I want an employee of mine to be carrying one either. No good for harmony in the work place.

 

[Padraigb]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

I don't need to read anything more about my status as a future employer. All I know is that if I advertise a post I expect to be able to choose who best fills that post. I don't have a chip on my shoulder nor would I want an employee of mine to be carrying one either. No good for harmony in the work place.

The law takes an interest in how you decide who best fills a post.

 

[Simeon]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Really. So? I still chose who I want.

 

[Simeon]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Employers must comply with the law of the land. (This includes the various anti discrimination measures, child labour regulations, etc enshrined in Irish law).

Employers must also comply with various industry regulations which govern the qualifications of employees (for instance if someone employed as a pharmacist must meet the relevant qualifications as set out by the regulatory body).

The "law of the land" is quite extensive. While the Employment Equality Acts are not wholly clear (perhaps it might be better to say "easy to read") on selection processes, the Director of Equality Investigation has, in handling specific cases, addressed questions of discriminatory selection processes. While most of the cases of which I am aware involve discrimination on grounds of gender or marital status, discrimination on grounds of race is also covered by the same legislation. Race is defined broadly, to include ethnic or national origins.

Put simply: you are legally required to avoid discrimination in your selection procedures; the onus is own you to be able to show that you did not discriminate.

For a summary description of the law, see [broken link removed]

Ah, perfectly clear lads!
[broken link removed]

 

[Simeon]

Re: Racism or not ?

And playing the race card???? People are generally accused of this when they are highlighting the fact that they are being subjected to racist behaviour. Should they say nothing so as not to draw attention to themselves? If you refused to employ me because someone who looks a bit like me once caused you trouble I would "play the race card" till I was blue in the face.

Do you not think that malcontents use this? I've worked in the Middle East, Africa, and spent 15 years in mainland Europe. In that time I've seen lots of different nationals use this ploy. I've yet to see a good worker get sacked. But I've seen lots of slackers, attitude heads, anti social people, people not up to the job etc. get the high jump. Those people then shouted their mouths off about being given a wrong deal. If you were running a small firm you would understand what I mean. Otherwise, it's the tail wagging the dog. And ultimately your business would go under.

 

[ashambles]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

These surveys have the same result the world over, showing to some degree applicants similar to the recruiter have a better chance.
It's nothing new, Germans will do the same to Irish applicants. Cry me a river.

But only to jobs where the CV actually isn't that important, if the CV is important then 2 identical apart from name CVs will be spotted. So the whole survey falls apart. By definition it targets recruiters for jobs where the CV doesn't really matter. So saying that two candidates with identical CVs end up with different responses isn't a surprise.

For someone looking for specific skills a duplicate CV would be noticed. Even for students from the same college, I'd expect to see a different project or something.

Also the recruiter it'll target will often be the recruiters with the highest pencentage of non-Irish staff, so while the survey could throw up discrimination based on CV responses, discrimination based on employees hired might be absent.

When QANGOs and government bodies come up this type of talking down to employers I'm reminded of this blog comment from a Russian ex-pat working in Ireland

http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2009/01/foreigner-we-dont-want-you-in-our.html

"For a foreign national residing in Ireland, the probability of ending up in Public Sector employment ranged from 11.1% in Health & Social Work, to 3.9% in Education, to ca 2.2% in our semi-state companies and 1.6% in Public Administration. In other words, a foreigner is 19 times (!) more likely to gain a job in our private economy than in the most insulated and unions-protected Irish Public Administration sector!"

 

[Simeon]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Shhhhuush! Everyone seems to have gone quiet. I wonder why?
Quote:
"For a foreign national residing in Ireland, the probability of ending up in Public Sector employment ranged from 11.1% in Health & Social Work, to 3.9% in Education, to ca 2.2% in our semi-state companies and 1.6% in Public Administration. In other words, a foreigner is 19 times (!) more likely to gain a job in our private economy than in the most insulated and unions-protected Irish Public Administration sector!"

 

[Padraigb]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Gurdgiev seems to be making an anti-union case and, to assist his argument, describes primary education as "virtually un-unionised"; that might surprise the INTO.

I find his report of " foreign national comprising 30.6% of employment in the broadly defined private sector economy" surprising, but can't get sufficiently interested (it's Gurgdiev, after all) to dig into CSO figures.

 

[liaconn]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Nobody is talking about breaking the law. I'm merely stating that as an employer, I have the right to employ who I like. And so does any other employer. I go through an interview process and in the following week make a decision. Now, tell me where I'm going wrong.

Actually, the law states that if a suitable EEA national is available to take the job, you cannot offer it to a non-EEA national even if he is a better candidate.

 

[Simeon]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Hmmmmmmm! Discrimination by the lawmakers. Sooooooo, some human beings are more equal than others? You know Liaconn, you're going to upset a lot of the malcontents and pinkos here.

 

[mick1960]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Advertise the job in Irish that would solve the problem.Ádh mór ort agus Sláinte

 

[ajapale]

Re: Racism rife as people with Irish sounding names twice as likely to be given job.

Since the original comment/question regarding people with names not regarded as Irish not being called for interview is not being discussed any more the thread is now closed.