question on leaving cert exams postponement

[Conan]

Last week critics were saying that holding the exams was unfair to students, no classes, lack of internet, mental pressure etc.
Now other critics are saying that cancelling the exams is unfair, school profiling, private schools versus public schools, trusting teachers etc.
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t.
I cannot see that it would have been impossible to organise the exams safely, with social distancing, in schools that are empty. Get more invigilators, use multiple classrooms, organise entrances so students are separated etc.

 

[Delboy]

Public health issues is a get out of jail excuse these days.

They haven't closed Supermarkets and there's people walking in and out of them everyday. Would be far less risk for students going into an empty school, 10 to a class room with 1 supervisor. But that wouldn't have been popular

 

[Deiseblue]

I'm not prepared to second guess the medical experts who concluded that cancelling the Leaving Cert exams is the correct course of action at this time.

 

[Sunny]

Nobody is second guessing health experts. But the experts simply advised that holding the leaving cert exams like normal wasnt possible. If we cant hold leaving cert exams at the end of July on public health grounds, how on earth are we going to be able to open schools and universities just 4 weeks later for the next school year. What exactly are they expecting to change? If they can social distance safely at the end of August, they can social distance safely at the end of July for exams.

 

[elacsaplau]

Can anybody explain how national standardisation will work?

Specifically, if my teacher gives me a H1 and standardisation overlay brings it down to a H2, what happens then?

 

[mtk]

ridiculous so unfair to cancel..... the scope for favouritism etc is too great.... I cried.

 

[EmmDee]

Can anybody explain how national standardisation will work?

Specifically, if my teacher gives me a H1 and standardisation overlay brings it down to a H2, what happens then?

You get a H2.

They standardise the normal leaving cert as well.

 

[cremeegg]

Medical advice was obviously the reason why the Leaving Certs exams were cancelled.

That is not at all obvious.

The government was simply unwilling to make the necessary arrangements to deal with the public health issues involved.

Every serious student will be left feeling that they were denied the opportunity to show what they had worked for over 2 and even 14 years. Of course there will be some who will feel they have had a luck escape, but I think in time the number who feel cheated will be far greater. When it came to the crunch the state decided they were simply not that important.

If an exam for 60,000 students could not be arranged in July, how can 800,000 students return to school in September.

 

[Deiseblue]

Cremeegg , I believe that it is entirely possible that schools will not reopen in September / October .
Of course such a reopening is hugely desirable but unless we are delivered from the current crisis by a vaccine or a tremendous downturn in new cases and avoiding a second wave then I feel that such a reopening is a pipe dream.
Perhaps the Government are , like the rest of us , hoping that the 5 stages towards a form of normalcy are achievable but I’m not confident that such will be the case.

 

[elacsaplau]

They standardise the normal leaving cert as well.

I understand that standardisation has happened for very many years.

What I'm interested in is how standardisation happens this year - by reference to national figures, by reference to historic performance from a given college? The point being if one of these basis is adopted, won't it cause lots of potential issues?

 

[EmmDee]

I understand that standardisation has happened for very many years.

What I'm interested in is how standardisation happens this year - by reference to national figures, by reference to historic performance from a given college? The point being if one of these basis is adopted, won't it cause lots of potential issues?

I'm not sure if they have provided that level of detail. I think each school has to approx standardise and then it is tweaked centrally. I don't know if they'll refer back to historic performance for each school. It is a bit of an estimated job certainly. Not perfect but assume the thinking is that it would be better than ongoing uncertainty.

Something I hadn't considered... It is likely the number of overseas students will be way down if not zero. So it could mean quite a few more places available.

The points for each course when published will tell how much of a disruption it has been.

 

[cremeegg]

I understand that standardisation has happened for very many years.

In the past marking schemes have been tweaked to produce the desired number of students at each grade.

What seems to be proposed here is that individual students results produced by teachers/schools will be changed. That is an entirely different thing. The previous standardisation still kept the exam and the marking scheme the same for all students.

Noe it seems each school will have an allocated number of H1s H2s etc, based on that schools previous results. At least that is my understanding.

The whole thing is a farce and an utter abandonment of the students.

 

[elacsaplau]

Thanks Cremeegg,

So your understanding is that the standardisation will be done at individual college level - do you have a link for this? If this is the case, for sure this could cause all sorts of anomalies.

 

[odyssey06]

Noe it seems each school will have an allocated number of H1s H2s etc, based on that schools previous results. At least that is my understanding.

So it's pretty much assigning places based on grading curve established by last year's results.
It's probably the fairest thing to do for 95% of the students but very tough on those that 'exceeded expectations' and were exceptional for the school.

 

[cremeegg]

Thanks Cremeegg,

So your understanding is that the standardisation will be done at individual college level - do you have a link for this? If this is the case, for sure this could cause all sorts of anomalies.

"The school-sourced data will be combined with historical data available from the SEC through a process called standardisation in order to generate the calculated grade for the students in the subject."

A Guide to Calculated Grades for Leaving Certificate Students 2020

A guide to calculated grades for Leaving Certificate students 2020.

www.gov.ie

 

[elacsaplau]

Hi Cremeegg,

Thanks for the link - to me, it's written deliberately vaguely - i.e. it's not definitive that the individual school's historic performance will apply. The "school-sourced data" is the result allocated by the teacher and the precise meaning of "historical data" is unclear - at least to me!?

 

[Purple]

"The school-sourced data will be combined with historical data available from the SEC through a process called standardisation in order to generate the calculated grade for the students in the subject."

A Guide to Calculated Grades for Leaving Certificate Students 2020

A guide to calculated grades for Leaving Certificate students 2020.

www.gov.ie

In other words of your thick child is in a good private school they will see their grades increased.

 

[odyssey06]

In other words of your thick child is in a good private school they will see their grades increased.

Depends on how many thick kids were in the school over the last few years?

 

[Purple]

Depends on how many thick kids were in the school over the last few years?

That's true but in general this will help the thick kids in the good schools and hurt the smart kids in the bad schools (good and bad being expressions of leaving cert results, not a holistic opinion of the school, area or socio-economic background of the students).

 

[cremeegg]

In other words of your thick child is in a good private school they will see their grades increased.

I don't think that follows.

Schools that have a good track record will be given more high grades, but that is because they have earned more high grades over the years. The kid in the lowest 10% in a good school will get the same grade the kid in the lowest 10% in that school got last year.

Where it will have an effect is in small schools where this years students are better or worse than the usual. (bigger schools will tend to average out). A small school I know of typically has one or two students get over 550 points each year. In 2018 it had no student get over 520, last year back to its usual performance, 3 students over 550. If this year's crop of students is as bad as 2018, some will do better than they should. On the other hand if this years group are better than usual and 5 or 6 would have got 550 in the exams had they been held, well they are going to lose out.