Query on Operational Guidelines for BP 65

G

Germolene

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Hi I have a problem that does not seem to get mentioned in the Operational Guidelines for BP65.

I met the criteria, had ceases employment had required contributions. I reasoned I may as well get back a small part of money stolen by slippery Michael Noonan with his pension levy. I was declined because my income (not work related) such as rental income, deposit income and dividend income is considered self employment income by Welfare as I have paid PRSI on it down the years. These amts exceed the e7500 limit set for allowed *subsidiary income* when being in receipt of BP65.

Subsidiary income in Operational Guidelines to my reading never mentions these items and talked about 'work'.

Any views/comments or possible solutions?,

Tks
 
Read this.

Can a person with rental or investment income over 7500 euro per year qualify for 65s benefit ?

No. However they could qualify for Jobseekers benefit at age 65. Basically the subsidiary employment rules for Jobseekers benefit are different to those for 65s benefit. Employment 1. PAYE employment Employment 2. Rental or investment income over 7000 euro per year. To qualify...
askaboutmoney.com


Provided that you are claiming JB based on your class A Prsi contributions the following would work.

If you got PAYE employment for 6 months from now and then ceased this employment your unearned income would then be from subsidiary employment. You could then claim JB until your 66th birthday.


PS. Did you cease employment immediately before applying for BP65 ?
If you did, then you could apply for JB now and you will qualify.
 
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A further consideration : If I am claiming BP65 based on leaving my Class “S” employment, I know my investment income (which say has not ceased) is also classed as “self-employment” and when below €7,500 p. a. is considered Subsidiary Employment. Am I still entitled to BP65 if I have retained a small Class “A” employment of €1,200 for a close friend/previous employer? Is it considered totally separate as it is Class “A” or is it as seems more likely also considered “subsidiary employment” and included with investment type income towards the €7,500 cap? (it would take me over the €7,500 sum)
 
If you cease the class A employment now, and if you meet the class A prsi rules for BP 65, you would qualify. Your self employment income would be subsidiary.
You could them take up the class A employment again on your 66th birthday.
 
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Thanks again S class.

As always things are a little more complicated (having received poor Citizens Information (which I can almost forgive because the guidelines seem fairly silent there on) which failed to mention the interaction of Investment Income/employment with subsidiary employment. It seems like Snakes not Ladders. Why does the guidelines on BP65 qualification, not clearly mention investment income and the many related issues and implications?

I ceased my “Class A” employment (Dec 23) 3.5 weeks after initiating my BP65 claim in Nov 23 (based on my Class S contributions),thus striving to keep my subsidiary employment income below the €7,500. (I was eligible to apply via Class S and/or Class A)
Three separate question I can think of:

Q1. Am I still eligible for BP65 or have I screwed up?

Q2. Should/Could/do I need to make a new claim with the revised date ,when the “Class A” employment also seized?

Q3. Is it possible/necessary a make a new claim for BP65 with a revised date, whilst the original claim has gone to Appeals Office on a different matter?

Many thanks for any input or advise.

I suspect that I could be very close to 66 before I hear from SW. Six weeks to get a decision. Five weeks to get acknowledgement of receipt of appeal. Not advised when appeal would be registered. Told approx. time from registration would be minimum 17.5 weeks. And people complain about NCT!
 
If your class A employment has run for a minimum of 26 weeks you might qualify for Jobseekers Benefit.

You can make a new application for Jobseekers Benefit now.

I made a mistake in post #5.
You cannot qualify for BP 65 but you could possibly qualify for Jobseekers Benefit.

This could be backdated to Nov 23 when you ceased employment.
 
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S class said:
If your class A employment has run for a minimum of 26 weeks you will qualify for Jobseekers Benefit.

You can make a new application for Jobseekers Benefit now.

I made a mistake in post #5.
You cannot qualify for BP 65 but you could possibly qualify for Jobseekers Benefit.

This could be backdated to Nov 23 when you ceased employment.
Click to expand...
HI S class -thanks again. I hope you don't mind a further query.
Not very interested in Job Seekers as was only keeping contributions ticking over for BP65 and to get back about 20% of what Michael Noonan stole with his pension levy. In the case of JB, I would only qualify for a reduced rate.
Seems to me that BP65 is riddled with begrudgery and lack of clear information. I am back to my original criticism that clear and accurate information is not provided by SW and it is not even clear to Citizens Information advisors.

What do you see as the specific reasoning that I cannot qualify for BP65 from the date I ceased my Class A employment in Dec 23?
(as a Class A claim rather than a Class S claim)?

I would still have had the Investment Income (DEEMED Self Employment back in Dec) if i was claiming from December date.
Surely I could have ceased my Class S (real) employment anytime prior to my Class A employment without negating my entitlement under Class A.
I have checked my insurance record and I have for the last few years 104 weeks@ Class S ( 52 regular employment Class S and presumably 52 weeks Investment Income Self Employment and 52 weeks Class A also each year)
Thanks for all your time and sharing your considerable experience.
 
Forget about BP65.

For a person aged between 65 and 66, Jobseekers Benefit is exactly the same as BP65.

Jobseekers Benefit for age 65 to 66 is always paid at the full rate of 232 euro regardless of your previous class A earnings. It is also paid up to age 66 regardless of whether your entitlement to 9 months would have run out before then.
You don't need to be available for or seeking work and you don't need to sign on.


There are restrictions to BP65 which limits subsidiary earnings to 7500 euro.


With Jobseekers Benefit there is no limit to your subsidiary earnings.
The only rules you need to meet is that you must have had your investment income for a period of at least 117 weeks and your class A employment must have run for a minimum of 26 weeks before you ceased it.

If you meet these rules and have the required class A stamps for the last few years you will qualify for Jobseekers Benefit.

Apply now you have nothing to loose.
 
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S class said:
Forget about BP65.

For a person aged between 65 and 66, Jobseekers Benefit is exactly the same as BP65.

Jobseekers Benefit for age 65 to 66 is always paid at the full rate of 232 euro regardless of your previous class A earnings. It is also paid up to age 66 regardless of whether your entitlement to 9 months would have run out before then.
You don't need to be available for or seeking work and you don't need to sign on.


There are restrictions to BP65 which limits subsidiary earnings to 7500 euro.


With Jobseekers Benefit there is no limit to your subsidiary earnings.
The only rules you need to meet is that you must have had your investment income for a period of at least 117 weeks and your class A employment must have run for a minimum of 26 weeks before you ceased it.

If you meet these rules and have the required class A stamps for the last few years you will qualify for Jobseekers Benefit.

Apply now you have nothing to loose.
Click to expand...

Hi S class,

Thanks for your very prompt response. I owe you more than a few pints at this stage. I will 100% follow up on Jobseekers Benefit.

As usual I am a bit confused: Is it only on A contributions which I could claim? [>= Dec date]
(can/cannot I try to claim from Nov date as presumably from your comments Class A (€1,200 pa) in itself would be subsidiary and investment income would not be considered subsidiary. If so then I could resume my Class A employment( €1,200 pa) in the future.
[my confusion arises due to mentions of Class S below.

(1)“To qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit, you must pay Class A, H or P PRSI contributions.”
(2)“To qualify you need:
At least 104 weeks of Class A, H or P PRSI paid contributions or at least 156 Class S PRSI contributions since you first started work.
AND
39 weeks of A, H or P PRSI paid or credited in the relevant tax year (a minimum of 13 weeks must be paid contributions)”


Thanks for clarifying that full rate would apply as I had thought I would have had to have average pay of €300 or more per week.


QUESTIONS would be grateful if you could please answer separately (so that I am fully clear).

Q1. What date Nov (Class S ) OR Dec (Class A) should I attempt to have my Jobseekers Benefit back dated to?

Q2. In the 65-66 bracket-does the nine-month payment period apply or does payment apply until transferring to State Pension at 66.

Q3. If I draw down my personal pension (4% ARF) whilst in receipt of Jobseekers Benefit, does it have any implications (apart from taxation etc. payable)

and finally, curiosity has the better of me re BP65 as it is now seems redundant in my case. but the reasoning escapes me

Q4 (In context FROM MSG 5 ) What do you see as the specific reasoning that I cannot qualify for BP65 from the date I ceased my Class A employment in Dec 23?
(as a Class A claim rather than a Class S claim) SEE EARLIER MSG.

Many thanks.

I am really grateful for the education, just wish I had asked the questions in the right place four months ago. Thanks again for all inputs.
 
Q1. I missread post 6. You can start your Jobseekers claim from the date in Dec that you ceased class A employment.

Q2. Jobseekers will run up to the day before you claim your contributury pension at age 66.

Q3. Your personal pension is not classed as employment, so no effect on Jobseekers Benefit.

Q4. https://askaboutmoney.com/threads/c...r-qualify-for-65s-benefit.234773/post-1863392

If you read this linked attachment..... The yellow highlighted text shows the different rules applying to JB and BP65. The rules for JBSE (Jobseekers Benefit Self employed) are the same as the BP65 rules. Neither of these are allowed with subsidiary employment over 7500.

The 117 contribution rule, is the rule that allows unlimited subsidiary employment income.

As to the reason why only Jobseekers Benefit allowes unlimited subsidiary employment in certain cases, is anybody's guess.

My theory is that the government purposely make the rules complicated so that a lot of people then miss out on payments because they cannot figure them out. Net result, a saving to the Exchequer.
 
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S Class thanks once again for the detailed reply. My final question on this for February and hopefully final final: (I am off the trail of BP65 and hopefully will be successful in back claiming JB)
I realise this is pushing the boat out a bit!
Assuming success with back dated JB claim. Is it possible downstream (say after 3 months) to take back up the Class A Employment with my friend (there are business reasons why he needs my sign-off on certain documents and needs to record a related expense), which actually would be / was used to qualify for Job Seekers Benefit in the first instance (thinking being could it be considered incidental as less than €144 per week? =?"subsidiary"?

Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks and kind regards.
 
No, of you take up employment you will not qualify for JB.

If you for example, take up employment for 1 day to do your sign off, you would need to notify Social Protection that you are working that day and they would cancel your JB just for that day.
 
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