Public Transport company cancels hundreds of journeys.

TheBigShort said:
This is disgraceful. Bus Eireann should be privatised. This would never happen in the private sector, and if it did, heads would roll. Whoever was responsible would definitely get the sack unlike in the public sector. I blame the trade unions.
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It must be great now having a great example in the private sector of a huge screw up. You can point to it as a reference for all future screw ups in the public sector from now to eternity.
 
TheBigShort said:
This is disgraceful. Bus Eireann should be privatised. This would never happen in the private sector, and if it did, heads would roll. Whoever was responsible would definitely get the sack unlike in the public sector. I blame the trade unions.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
qwerty5 said:
It must be great now having a great example in the private sector of a huge screw up. You can point to it as a reference for all future screw ups in the public sector from now to eternity.
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Nail on the head!
 
qwerty5 said:
It must be great now having a great example in the private sector of a huge screw up. You can point to it as a reference for all future screw ups in the public sector from now to eternity.
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Except the point is it really doesn't matter if it's a private or public sector company. Screw ups happen all the time. It's just that when it happens in public sector the call is to privatise. Why? The private sector is as likely to screw up as the public sector.
Finger pointing the blame at trade unions is typical (see Fireflys support for my previous comment) even though Ryanair don't deal with trade unions.
 
Firefly said:
Nail on the head!
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I have dozens of examples of private sector screw-ups. They are not headline making, but the occur on a regular basis. The latest is my son's Samsung tablet sent for repair. Ten working days I was told, over a month ago!
I doubt if anyone will be sacked (I certainly wouldn't want that), but if it was a public sector organization looking after this, this would typically be the reaction. You have confirmed so, with your support of my previous comment.
 
TheBigShort said:
Except the point is it really doesn't matter if it's a private or public sector company. Screw ups happen all the time.
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There's a big difference. In Ryanair's case the financial hit was borne by the company and it's shareholders. When fiascos happen in the public sector, (which occur way more frequently), it hits everyone's pocket in the form of taxes...we all have to pay.
 
TheBigShort said:
Finger pointing the blame at trade unions is typical (see Fireflys support for my previous comment) even though Ryanair don't deal with trade unions.
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I was agreeing with your whole tread (which is rare) not just the bit about the unions specifically.
 

So what do you propose, abolish the public sector?
 
Firefly said:
In Ryanair's case the financial hit was borne by the company and it's shareholders. When fiascos happen in the public sector, (which occur way more frequently),
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See this is where I disagree. On a personal level, my direct interaction with public services is dwarfed by my direct interaction with private services. From my experience, screw ups occur in the private sector on a regular basis. Mostly probably due to inefficiency or poor management or poor training.
 

True enough. But there are levels of inefficiency or poor management and training.

I deal with both the private sector and the public sector in my role in work. I'd say the levels of inefficiency and poor management are hugely disparate between both sectors.

In the private sector in even a half assed company there will be accountability and responsibility assigned and taken. A company might mess up today but it won't (or at least shouldn't) repeat the mistake again and again and again.
If it does repeat its major mistakes then people lose jobs or the company disappears.
I'm not sure the same can be said of the public sector departments.

Note: I'm not talking about screw ups of the scale of the RyanAir one or your Samsung Tablet one. More along the lines of departments not having a clue on how to run a project leading it costing them thousands more than it needs to if they could get their act together.
 
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qwerty5 said:
In the private sector in even a half assed company there will be accountability and responsibility assigned and taken.
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Not always the case at all. It is actually a lot rarer in my opinion. For sure, somebody will be put up front to apologise etc. But rarely would anybody face losing their job unless it was on account of gross misconduct or worse.

qwerty5 said:
A company might mess up today but it won't (or at least shouldn't) repeat the mistake again and again and again.
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qwerty5 said:
If it does repeat its major mistakes then people lose jobs or the company disappears.
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If it repeats the same mistake again and again yes, but industry is ever evolving. Mistakes do happen again and again, people learn from them, move on and prosper. That is the challenge and focus for Ryanair, not whose head should roll.

That is the point of this topic, screw-ups occur but people losing their jobs on account of screw-ups is a lot rarer than some would have you believe. Instead, companies will typically try learn from their mistakes and prosper.

qwerty5 said:
I'm not sure the same can be said of the public sector departments.
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That depends on the particular department or office
 
TheBigShort said:
That is the point of this topic, screw-ups occur but people losing their jobs on account of screw-ups is a lot rarer than some would have you believe. Instead, companies will typically try learn from their mistakes and prosper.
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I agree with that.
It is the agility of the company and the willingness of the workforce to accept and then embrace change that determines the success of the organisation.
I think the issue is the perception, real or imagined, that public sector bodies are less able to change and that's where the Unions come in; it is perceived that they need their pound of flesh with every change and are willing to damage the organisation and the customer (the public) in order to get it.
 

My view, from experience, is that perception of trade union intransigence is over-played. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, and I have been critical of my own union on many occasions also.
But the example of what is happening at Ryanair, in the absence of unions, is reflective of issues occurring elsewhere in the workforce, particularly in the private sector where most employees do not have the support or protection that a trade union can provide.
 
I think that's the perception alright.
 
Bus Eireann fast becoming the Ryanair of the roads!
New rosters introduced and they're not going down well apparently

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...haos-amid-new-threat-of-strikes-36168796.html
 
Delboy said:
Bus Eireann fast becoming the Ryanair of the roads!
New rosters introduced and they're not going down well apparently
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It's uncanny the similarities between BE and Ryanair regarding the staff rosters. Either the rosters are a breach of working terms or there has been no agreement with drivers/pilots.
The difference between the two disputes appears to be that the drivers are represented by a trade union standing their corner. The pilots are not. But the similarities in the issues are there to see, from the outside looking in at least.
The CEO of Ryanair at least accepted that the buck stops with him.
However, the comments section below the article gives an indicator of guess who the public mainly believe is at fault in BE? - and it's not management.
This is a great example of the public indoctrination that trade unions are bad for business because their BE driver members refuse to work new practices without agreement, but that high flying private companies are great even though their pilots refuse to work new practices without agreement.
 
Delboy said:
Bus Eireann fast becoming the Ryanair of the roads!
New rosters introduced and they're not going down well apparently
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I think in Ryanair's case it was a screw-up by management who have apologised and to be fair seem to have accommodated most passengers at this stage. In BE's case it was (from the article) due to workers calling in sick. Quite different. The former seems to be a one-off screw-up, the latter premeditated as usual.
 
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