Sophrosyne
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,577
What does Leper and Deiseblue being “ardent union men” - if indeed they are - have to do with Wardy’s original post, which concerns the current promotional system?
Last edited:
No.
Actually, seeing Deiseblue's post, I think I may have gotten Leper and Deiseblue mixed up...unless ye are both ardent union men...!
You didn't get Déise and me confused. We need each other when Purple is around.
J
jjm
Guest
I can see purple becoming more leper than leper hinself.
. . . . perish the thought!!!!!!
Assessments and references in the Public Service are not worth the paper they are written on. Awkward incompetent people are recommended for promotion and transfer in order to get rid of them. Interviewers are more liable to contact someone they know in a department to get the true story about an indivdual rather than believe glowing reports. Also it is necessary to have a geogaphical spread of successful candidates. This means a thicko in Mayo will get promoted rather than two deserving candidates from the one section elsewhere
If they are as productive as two candidates elsewhere then maybe they deserve the job.
I do have strong socialist tendencies alright. That's the main reason I dislike vested interest groups like Unions who prey on the weak and vulnerable.
You have caused me to regress. Proud of yourself??
They are not as productive. What happens is a candidate is selected on a geographical basis to keep every region happy. This results in a dodo being selected and a deserving candidate elsewhere being not selected.
Thank you Vanessa for that. It's one thing I never took into consideration, but now you have opened my eyes more. Just another line in the chapter of how not to give the promotion to the right person. Well Done Vanessa - perhaps you are not as innocent as I thought on a previous issue? I love the word "dodo."
That "deserving" candidate elsewhere can apply for the post in any geographical area they wish, including the county where the most "thickos" congregate. It should then be a walk in the park for them to get promoted.
That is my point. The management are more interested in keeping the union happy by spreading promotions throughout the country rather than promoting the best candidates and allocating them to wherever the vacancies arise.
Your argument is self defeating.
1. Anyone may apply for any post in any county once they reach the eligibility requirements.
2. There is more competition in counties such as Dublin, Galway, Cork, Limerick, etc. but there are usually more posts. Smaller counties may have less competition but there are usually less posts.
1. Anyone may apply for any post in any county once they reach the eligibility requirements.
2. There is more competition in counties such as Dublin, Galway, Cork, Limerick, etc. but there are usually more posts. Smaller counties may have less competition but there are usually less posts.
I am aware that anyone can apply but it is the approach of management that is in issue. Certain sections of the Public Sector allocate places on a geographical basis so that every county is represented on the promotion list rather than allocating the places to the most deserving candidate regardless of their geographical location
Unions are not interested in the promotion prospects of any one person. The unions are interested in fair play in the selection process though. Us public service lifers know that in most cases fair play and promotions seldom seem to meet. There was a time when the next suitable senior member was nearly automatically the choice for promotion. This went by the board back in the 1980's when the interview process was installed as the cheaper, faster and mostly promotion-controlled environment imaginable. Let's face it the majority of promotions was to unimportant lower management positions i.e. one or two grades up from clerical officer. So it was not too important if the wrong person got chosen. It did make a difference however to the clerical officer who was busting his/her butt to improve performance in the hope that somebody who could do the promotion job would be successful. There were many cases where somebody who didn't have a clue whatsoever in lower management got the job and suddenly found himself/herself supervising people who knew the promotional job inside out. This never led to any kind of good feeling other than to turn good people into cynical punchers of time and making the new manager look stupid, at least, initially.
Leper, I dont accept the suggestion made by an earlier poster in this thread that the public service is "totally corrupt" but your post does seem a more balanced reflection. Can you understand why the general public are disgusted with the public service. The antics you describe waste tax payers money and affect the services delivered to the public.
If I'm reading Leper''s post correctly this antiquated promotion system ended in the 80's.
The same system applied in the major Banks at the time , to achieve the rank of senior bank official you simply had to serve 5 years , promotions to officer grade & assistant manager grade were simply made in the majority of cases on the nod & without interviews - length of service & gender being the main factors.
Thankfully things changed.
The same system applied in the major Banks at the time , to achieve the rank of senior bank official you simply had to serve 5 years , promotions to officer grade & assistant manager grade were simply made in the majority of cases on the nod & without interviews - length of service & gender being the main factors.
Thankfully things changed.
Does that mean they are happy when someone who is only in a job a short time is promoted ahead of a far more experienced person because the new guy is just much better at the job?
thedaddyman
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,340
Yeah, right. I know 2 people in my own family who were told by the union rep if they did not join the union they would never be promoted. Unions have their own cronies and favourites as well