Public Service Attitudes.

A big +1.
 
csirl said:
As I've said many times on this forum before, the Government should be laying off staff in areas where programmes have been shut down and getting rid of the swathes of politically connected people in useless quangos and the HSE.
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This is nonsense. Who are these 'politically connected people' and which 'useless quangos' do you want to close down?
 
Complainer said:
This is nonsense. Who are these 'politically connected people' and which 'useless quangos' do you want to close down?
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There's a list of useless quangos in the Bord Snip report.

While the HSE may be nominally politically independent, it still has the legacy of its recent past (as Health Boards) when it was controlled by politicians i.e. local councillors. In e.g. the core civil service, recruitment is done in an unbiased way and employees are forbidden from being members of any political parties. I'm not sure the same can be said about the legions of "Assistant National Directors" et al in the HSE.

You also have to ask why we have so many quangos in the first place? My theory is that because they are outside the civil service, they are not subject to the same recruitment rules as the civil service and so the Government can use these jobs as gifts to their supporters. They are usually headed up by politicially connected Directors and we all know what that means in terms of recruitment.
 
Prime Time did a special on Quangos a few months back and one thing that struck me was that although the numbers were small in some of these (30-40), the percentage of high level grades was large. From memory, one had 40% of staff at AP level or higher. That would be considered a reletively high position in the public service.
 
Sunny said:
Does anyone have an list of the quangos that actually exist. Tried to find one but couldn't. Only found this.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article616806.ece
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You also have the boards of state agencies and state sponsored agencies that are made up of Social Partners. FAS would be one example. Most receive some form of stipend for their time and (ahem) trouble and it wasn't unknown that board meetings take place "off site" to facilitate those who have to travel. Though why one particular agency had to have a board meeting in 2008 up in Derry (with overnights) when the member of the board who lived closest lived in Malahide is beyond me.

In fairness since the economy went belly up, most have curbed the worst of the excess, but it still requires some review of their operations and expense.

In addition, depending on the agency you can have several sub-committees feeding into the board, again made up of social partners.

While some tripartite systems are worthwhile for some agencies, it can't be said to be the same for all. the point being, we should be careful of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
"Quango" is an emotive term that seems to convey the impression that they exist only to support those who work for them.

They may also be referred to as specialist agencies that provide a particular service in repsonse to public demand. If this public demand no longer exists, or if the government that it can no longer afford to provide this service, then by all means shut them down.

But at least try to understand why they're there in the first place and judge them individually on the extent to which they have fulfilled their mandate.
 

Hence the fact that I was looking for a list but there doesn't seem to be one.
 
csirl said:
There's a list of useless quangos in the Bord Snip report.
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There is no overall list of agencies in the Bord Snip report, as this report is structured by Govt Dept. So again, let me ask you to clarify, who are the 'useless agencies' that you propose to close down?

So you're 'not sure' that they are independent. Does this mean that you are sure that they are politically connected, or does it (more likely) mean that you have absolutely no idea what is really going on here, so you are going to attack by slur and innuendo. Once again, can I ask you to produce some details of these 'politically connected' staff?

Your theory has no basis in fact. My theory is that you have no idea what you are talking about here. Again, if you have any details/evidence/specifics about what agencies/people/roles have resulted in politically connected staffers, let's get it on the table. If you don't have any details, maybe you'd consider withdrawing your unfounded slur.
 
Sunny said:
Hence the fact that I was looking for a list but there doesn't seem to be one.
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This is taken from discussion on another webstie. I cannot see the list referenced to an offical document but it mentions a number of 170 quangos.

[broken link removed]
 
Complainer said:
let me ask you to clarify, who are the 'useless agencies' that you propose to close down?
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Ah Complainer, we seem to be at odds all day.
Shall I start with this one: Limerick Northside Generation Agency and perhaps the Limerick Southside Regeneration Agency. 2 separate boards as seen here
Madness.

But it gets better. 2 separate boards but 3 separate addresses
 
Shawady said:
This is taken from discussion on another webstie. I cannot see the list referenced to an offical document but it mentions a number of 170 quangos.

[broken link removed]
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Ha ha. Are they all for real? Not doubting the work done by many but what does the Health and Children Office for Tobacco Control 2002 do??
 
Instead of trying to pass the onus onto the me, can you tell me why the people recruited by these organisations are not recruited in the same way as core civil servants and are not subject to the same restrictions on political activity? Where is the transparancy on the probity of these organisations? As public sector organisations paid out of taxpayers money, the taxpayer has a right to be given proof of probity?

I'm well able to give examples. I used to work for a Government Department myself. I have friends and family who work in some of these areas of the public sector. I also live in an area that that has been rife with political patronage due to us having some politicians who like exercising their influence in the area. I personally know people who have benefited from political patronage and have been employed by some of these organisations. I dont think the Mod will allow me to print their names on this message board. Not coincidently, I also have a few neighbours who have appeared at or been named in recent tribunals.
 


Two seperate boards, and one team of staff.



So are you closing down both agencies, or merging them? What savings will this produce?
 
Complainer said:
Two seperate boards, and one team of staff.



So are you closing down both agencies, or merging them? What savings will this produce?
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Two points. Firstly, in my experience, this agency seems top heavy with staff considering its brief.

Secondly, why does it exist at all? Couldnt this be done by the local authority?
 
Complainer said:
Two seperate boards, and one team of staff.



So are you closing down both agencies, or merging them? What savings will this produce?
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Merging in the absence of the councils and HSE actually doing their job. Limerick needs some level of support.

Savings on stationery, phones, staff and rent. Then of course there's staff costs such as minuting two board meetings, changing letters for each side of the city, two financial reports etc. etc.

We are talking about a city of less than 80,000 people. It's not the New York. How can we need two board of directors working out of two different offices and a central team to administer it all?
 
Sunny said:
Ha ha. Are they all for real? Not doubting the work done by many but what does the Health and Children Office for Tobacco Control 2002 do??
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Here's a thought. Why don't you find out before you begin questioning their existence?

Or are afraid you might not like what you'd find?
 
Staples said:
Here's a thought. Why don't you find out before you begin questioning their existence?

Or are afraid you might not like what you'd find?
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I actually did find out. Something to do with creating a smokeless society or something. Do we have one for a alcohol free society as well?
 
csirl said:
Two points. Firstly, in my experience, this agency seems top heavy with staff considering its brief.

Secondly, why does it exist at all? Couldnt this be done by the local authority?
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These are reasonable questions for all state agencies. But just becasue you may not be able to readily come up with good reasons doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
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