Public sector pay rise

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Perhaps it would be better to say "cannot afford" to put money away for pensions for those in precarious lower paid employed in the private sector.

No, "45.2% stated that they never got around to organising it" and another 40% of workers without a pension said they can't afford it.

"2.8% of those without pension cover saying that other sources including the State pension, savings, etc. would be adequate".
 
Perhaps it would be better to say "cannot afford" to put money away for pensions for those in precarious lower paid employed in the private sector. However there is a cohort of workers who simply don't bother putting money away for their pensions and expect the state to provide. They are generally the same people who will moan about the "gold-plated" pensions of state workers. Public and civil servants have no choice but to contribute towards their pension from day 1 of their employment regardless of their income level. The proposed "auto-enrolment" scheme for all workers needs to be fast tracked to ensure pension coverage for the majority of the population in the decades ahead.
I agree, though the auto-enrolment pension system is rubbish for anyone earning the average industrial wage or has an expectation of earning above the marginal tax rate in the future.
The Gold Plating on State employee's pensions is a lot thinner than it used to be. In any discussion about pay the total package on offer, including pensions and T's and C's need to be discussed openly. When teachers and Gardaí quote the basic wage of new entrants instead of their full pay and their pension value they lose credibility. I'm not saying that they are under or over paid, I'm saying that honesty is a good starting point.
 
The SPC is c. €13k a year. What pension does a PS employee, with 40Y service, full class A PRSI, retiring on a salary of €26k p.a. earn? (ignoring lump sum for a moment).
 
The SPC is c. €13k a year. What pension does a PS employee, with 40Y service, full class A PRSI, retiring on a salary of €26k p.a. earn? (ignoring lump sum for a moment).

In such a scenario, what would the total pension contributions have been - assume the employee was on €26k p.a for the 40 years?
 
The SPC is c. €13k a year. What pension does a PS employee, with 40Y service, full class A PRSI, retiring on a salary of €26k p.a. earn? (ignoring lump sum for a moment).

Deleted - calculation is far more complicated than I had imagined!
 
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I think it's: 40/200ths of their final salary (in the case above that would be €5,200) plus the SPC of €13k.

Fairly sure the absolute max can be 50% of final salary. For example, if you work more than 40Y, you will continue to make the contributions but get no increase in benefits.

In such a scenario, what would the total pension contributions have been - assume the employee was on €26k p.a for the 40 years?

No idea. I presume it is the normal percentages i.e. 1.5% S&C, Lump Sum and 3% Pension. I think the absolute max you can get is 50% of final salary including SPC. I can't see the amazing pension benefits for low paid PS workers?
 
When teachers and Gardaí quote the basic wage of new entrants instead of their full pay and their pension value they lose credibility.
The basic starting wage of teachers is their full pay. The current starting wage is €38100. Allowances are all included now in the pay scale. The only extra allowance could be for a management post but that is unlikely for early career teachers. Pension is based on career average earnings not final salary so it is not a huge perk. Holidays are obviously generous but no one would stay in the career without them.
 
The average pensionable salary in the Public Sector in 2017 was €47,056.
The average pension in the public sector is also remarkably low. I don't have the data but I remember seeing a figure of well less than €30,000. Of course averages are notoriously misleading in that the encompass the pensions of those on very high salaries who may have full service and those in the lower echelons who may have only worked for a few years.
 
or perhaps you could be someone with a learning disability who is capable of performing basic admin tasks but for whom promotion wouldn't be an option?
There are exceptions to every rule but I would have little sympathy for someone who has the ability to upskill and get a better paying job and not taken the opportunity to do so. Salary should be about the value someone brings to an organisation and it's customers and clients. I'd have no issue if competent nurses in a hospital got a 20% payrise for example, but I'd have an issue if a paper stamper was screaming "parity" and got the same as a result.
 
There are exceptions to every rule but I would have little sympathy for someone who has the ability to upskill and get a better paying job and not taken the opportunity to do so. Salary should be about the value someone brings to an organisation and it's customers and clients. I'd have no issue if competent nurses in a hospital got a 20% payrise for example, but I'd have an issue if a paper stamper was screaming "parity" and got the same as a result.
This sounds perfectly reasonable in theory but in practise would be much more difficult to implement. Do you reward the teacher working in a challenging school whose class results may be poor or the one who works in an affluent areas whose class have excellent test scores? Which one is more "competent" and how to you assess that?
 
Holidays are obviously generous but no one would stay in the career without them.

Back in the day, my missus used to correct the State Examinations every summer to supplement her meagre teaching salary and to help pass the time! However nowadays the SEC can't recruit enough correctors which suggests that teachers are either too __________ (lazy/well-paid/knackered) - insert word according to choice - to bother! (the missus won't do it any more because they've moved her subject online and she didn't fancy having to look at a computer screen for 10 hours a day! )
 
However nowadays the SEC can't recruit enough correctors which suggests that teachers are either too __________ (lazy/well-paid/knackered) - insert word according to choice - to bother! (the missus won't do it any more because they've moved her subject online and she didn't fancy having to look at a computer screen for 10 hours a day! )
I think the pay is pretty terrible for this and many teachers won't be bothered. The continuous teacher bashing in the media during the pandemic has eroded much of the goodwill that might have been there.
 
I think the pay is pretty terrible for this and many teachers won't be bothered. The continuous teacher bashing in the media during the pandemic has eroded much of the goodwill that might have been there.

I can't remember the SEC bashing the teachers during the pandemic, but the precious little bunnies probably didn't realise that!
I agree that the level of pay was poor enough in the past, so for most examiners the profit was in the travel and sub and the conference expenses. But the SEC has been at pains to advertise that the rates have increased significantly this year.
 
The SEC didn't bash teachers but obviously haven't paid enough to make the job worth the effort, despite their claim that rates have increased significantly. The fact that this years results have to correlate with last year's inflated results will make the job even more difficult.
 
Based on my limited recent experience in my dealings with various sections of the public service, productivity is certainly down compared to pre-covid levels. My experience does not count for a lot but I’ve read the news reportage and heard the usual anecdotal stories which support my view.

Revenue staff are unavailable after 1:30pm.

The passport office is effectively uncontactable by phone or webchat (email contact is non-existent) and is engaging in inefficient practices leading to unnecessary delay.

The RTB has recently updated its website and processes but the customer experience is woeful (I’m waiting to hear back from them in relation to deactivating my account and linking it to my new one).

The LSRA complaints process is taking up to two years to deal with complaints, and sometimes longer.

Ditto with the FSPO.

Teachers have not been working at full tilt during the pandemic. Different schools worked at different paces (“home schooling” in my case was an email on a Friday night with lessons for the following week, whereas another school locally had sporadic online lessons for the children).

People with disabilities are suffering owing to the unavailability of therapeutic services.

Only today, I’ve read that Iarnrod Éireann have lost their catering contractor resulting in no catering on inter city lines.

The list goes on, and whilst I’m not blaming the workers, the reality is that the powers that be are currently presiding over systems that are inefficient, less productive than they could be and not always fit for purpose.

I think personally that the state blanket policy of allowing staff to work from home (and indeed insisting in some instances) has masked a drop in productivity across the entire civil and public service, and indeed the economy. However, nobody seems to be willing to do anything about it.

Hence my earlier comment concerning increased productivity.
Expect things to get worse. The public sector is in the same market for talent as all other employers and is less attractive than it used to be, particularly in relation to pensions for new entrants. Some complete donkeys are being appointed/promoted to positions of real importance without the skills or experience really needed. Genuine policymakers are getting thin on the ground.
 
The public sector is in the same market for talent as all other employers and is less attractive than it used to be, particularly in relation to pensions for new entrants.
On the money makeover threads I am regularly seeing private sector employees in their early 30s with >€100k incomes.

This is very hard to achieve in the public sector unless you are a medical consultant or in something like the NTMA.
 
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