november16
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so biased its unbelievable
so biased its unbelievableFair point. The new structures introduced during Covid that were built from scratch were generally excellent. The problem is changing existing structures were Unionised intransigence and bad work practices are engrained. The State Sector is certainly not alone in that.
and the wage cut from 2008 called a pension levy was probably not a wage cut either?. Here we go with the basher ps experts who do not know what they are talking about, Never happy unless bashing, try living on a Clerical Officers salary or pension for that matter if you worked in private industry and ps. the cats on here mostly in the 100,000 bracket who keep vilifying ordinary workers being paid peanuts after decades of work should try living on the clerical ps salary.no, they are pay rises. Just because they are not called that does not mean they are not payrises. Do the staff impacted get paid more as a result?. Yes = Payrise
The myopic journalists conveniently bypass the cuts from 2008 the levy the paycuts the additional hours. Groundhog day I am back to 2008 salary in 2022 yipee and my eyes water when I see the salaries of people on here who are bashing the massive salaries of e.g. clerical staff who can hope to work for maybe 19,000 and it will take them 20 years to get to 41,000. but thats probably too much for private industry to pay and next its the pensions are too much, with the Additional Superannuation and pension levy civil/public etc paid 14% extra since 2009 and in many instance were not entitled to pensions and still had to pay the pension levy.According to the CSO, over the seven years from Q42014 average hourly earnings in the public sector have risen by 14%, and the private sector by 21%.
Inflation was 7% over the same period. This left public sector workers with about a 7% real pay increase, approximately half the real pay increase experienced by the private sector of 13%.
A lot of ground has been lost by public sector workers over the period and I don't think there is an Irish journalist who has spotted this.
There were large pay increases for State employees in the years leading up to 2008. That should be noted for context.The myopic journalists conveniently bypass the cuts from 2008 the levy the paycuts the additional hours. Groundhog day I am back to 2008 salary in 2022 yipee
State employees on €19k aren’t paying a 14% pension levy. Those on higher salaries are and I agree that those people are under paid for the work they do but clerical level employees aren’t. Not by international standards or benchmarked against their counterparts in the non State sector.and my eyes water when I see the salaries of people on here who are bashing the massive salaries of e.g. clerical staff who can hope to work for maybe 19,000 and it will take them 20 years to get to 41,000. but thats probably too much for private industry to pay and next its the pensions are too much, with the Additional Superannuation and pension levy civil/public etc paid 14% extra since 2009 and in many instance were not entitled to pensions and still had to pay the pension levy.
Do you not think they did a good job building new structures during Covid? I think they did a great job.so biased its unbelievable
I don't think anyone sensible would advocate this. Making housing more affordable for essential key workers would be a better approach. We are loosing 5 teachers this year from a total of 14. They are all leaving the city because of unaffordable housing.. Do you not see the knock on effect doubling or tripling teachers pay would have?
Do you think that would be fiscally responsible?
That’s happening in every sector. If we are going to help people working in essential sectors then we will of course we’ll have to start with sewage workers, bin men (or are they bin people now?), supermarket employees, delivery drivers and all the people who are much more essential than teachers or nurses or doctors or people like me.I don't think anyone sensible would advocate this. Making housing more affordable for essential key workers would be a better approach. We are loosing 5 teachers this year from a total of 14. They are all leaving the city because of unaffordable housing.
I think there is merit in this.Making housing more affordable for essential key workers would be a better approach.
In the UK there's a London allowance for many State employees working in London. It's reasonable that something similar could be brought in here. It's nonsense to suggest that anyone's wages should be increased until they can afford to buy a house. That's a recipe for 1970's style inflation and a 1980's style recession.I think there is merit in this.
Housing costs in Dublin are materially and sustainably higher than the rest of the country.
There should be some recognition of this - particularly for high-skilled roles.
andIt's reasonable that something similar could be brought in here.
it's nonsense to suggest that anyone's wages should be increased until they can afford to buy a house.
Yes I agree with you. I was pointing out that increasing a teachers salary to €90k so that they can afford a house in Dublin is a really stupid idea as it will have a massive knock-on effect on wages across the economy and result in double digit inflation. It will also not make housing more affordable as prices will just increase in line with those pay increases. It's a really stupid idea.and
But the main cost of living difference inside and outside Dublin is housing.
I am not sure any society would function for very long without nurses, doctors or teachers! I agree that the other categories of workers you mentioned (bin workers, supermarket staff etc) are also essential but they are more likely to already qualify for state housing support by because of their low wage.all the people who are much more essential than teachers or nurses or doctors or people like me.
Of course it wouldn't. We'd struggle more without Farmers and Truck Drivers though. We'd also find it hard to manage if we flushed the toilet and nothing happened. That would cause more of a problem than the absence of doctors or nurses.I am not sure any society would function for very long without nurses, doctors or teachers!
I'm not bashing the public sector . All I'm asking for is openess, honesty and transparency around public sector pay rises and not the use of semantics. Plenty of public sector workers deserve to be paid more, I've never said they didn'tand the wage cut from 2008 called a pension levy was probably not a wage cut either?. Here we go with the basher ps experts who do not know what they are talking about, Never happy unless bashing, try living on a Clerical Officers salary or pension for that matter if you worked in private industry and ps. the cats on here mostly in the 100,000 bracket who keep vilifying ordinary workers being paid peanuts after decades of work should try living on the clerical ps salary.
when I lived in London and worked for one of the banks there, we had a big city allowance policy where depending on where you worked, a fixed, non-pensionable payment was added to your wage. In London, it was around 15% of the average staff salary whereas when I worked in Manchester for a year, it was around 5%. It got reviewed and updated annually and almost every city in the UK was covered to some degree.Any info on the disparity between London and the rest of the UK that justifies a London allowance, and what is the relative difference to the Dublin rest Ireland, disparity? I would think its not as severe in Ireland?
No different from lots of other people that are necessary for a city to function. The whole "essential worker" thing is a bit cringey. It's not as bad as people who refer to themselves as Frontline Workers but it's up there.But a short term view isn't helpful. Housing is a long term need and we need health and education staff in our cities if society is to function. Cities like London have already identified key workers so I am sure we could follow their template for workers who have to be in cities and are in need of affordable housing options. Many other jobs can be done remotely but this isn't an option for frontline workers.
I have worked in poorly paid jobs and I don't have a job for life, that's an outmoded belief. As it happens and I can be let go from my job. You seem to have a bias and it comes across as a bitterness and it it's pretty blatant at this stage. Why are you so fascinated by P.S. Why not go after the high earners in PS/CS . Many of my self employed friends and family seem to feel hard done by by comparison to public servants. On the outside people think its a golden pension and sitting with your feet up - that's only for the upper echelons. C.S P.S language is based on British Civil Service going back to the 1900's.I'm not bashing the public sector . All I'm asking for is openness, honesty and transparency around public sector pay rises and not the use of semantics. Plenty of public sector workers deserve to be paid more, I've never said they didn't
As for living on a Clerical workers wage, try doing a minimum wage job for a while where you can be sacked or laid off (as many were during Covid)) as opposed to having a job for life. I'm sure most of the cleaners, shop workers, warehouse operatives etc would love a Clerical Workers job and salary
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