Lovely to read this thread as an ordinary punter and realise not everyone wants to lambast the public service. The likes of Dan O Brien, McCarthy, et others throw out their numbers without any true comparisons at all. Are there private sector nurses, teachers, etc? Then compare their salaries to public service and do the same all along the line to get a nearer average, otherwise cut out their blah, blah, blah. As The Big Short says, devoid of substantive analysis.
2.4bn buys an awful lot of nurses!!!
It would, but I dont think the €2.4bn was spent on nurses alone. Perhaps you could provide a breakdown of where the wage increases were incurred and then you can point out where you think the excesses are?
To help you along, and noting your concern for the homeless crisis, do you think that the homeless crisis, and its negative effects on families, will have a detrimental effect on the well being of children? Do you think the homeless crisis may put pressure on the resources of child support agencies like Tusla?
If so, is it possible that such an agency may be recruiting people with the necessary skillsets to assist with the problems with child supports emerging from the homeless crisis?
Here is their website and the recruitment page for your information
https://www.tusla.ie/about/careers-in-tusla/
Straight question: Do you think, in the current situation with the crisis we have with homelessness and health care, should more money be spent on increasing public sector wages?
Nice try, but I have better things to do than be drawn down another mind-bending, rabbit hole that you have such a predilection for. Feel free to answer the question I posed in post #21 if you are interested in staying on topic..
There we have it. Thanks.Yes.
There we have it. Thanks.
Straight question: Do you think, in the current situation with the crisis we have with homelessness and health care, should more money be spent on increasing public sector wages?
That's a really silly thing to say; of course it is reasonable to compare someone with an arts degree and a postgraduate qualification with someone else with a similar qualification. You then look at the hours they work (and no, I don't think teachers only work 20 hours a week), overtime, bonuses, opportunities for advancement, holidays, pensions, job security, sick leave, paid maternity leave, career breaks and other perks over and above the statutory minimum and do a wage comparison.Are there private sector nurses, teachers, etc? Then compare their salaries to public service and do the same all along the line to get a nearer average
Lovely to read this thread as an ordinary punter and realise not everyone wants to lambast the public service. The likes of Dan O Brien, McCarthy, et others throw out their numbers without any true comparisons at all. Are there private sector nurses, teachers, etc? Then compare their salaries to public service and do the same all along the line to get a nearer average, otherwise cut out their blah, blah, blah. As The Big Short says, devoid of substantive analysis.
That's a really silly thing to say; of course it is reasonable to compare someone with an arts degree and a postgraduate qualification with someone else with a similar qualification. You then look at the hours they work (and no, I don't think teachers only work 20 hours a week), overtime, bonuses, opportunities for advancement, holidays, pensions, job security, sick leave, paid maternity leave, career breaks and other perks over and above the statutory minimum and do a wage comparison.
I'm not in the camp that says Public Servants are over paid or are laze. I am in the camp that says that the Public Sector is grossly inefficient due to structural issues and does not have a culture of efficiency, change or identification and adoption of best practice. That is the root cause of our Healthcare problems and contributes greatly to issues such as housing and homelessness. You can work your ass off in an inefficient process and you will always be inefficient. It's also really hard to change and is ultimately a failure of management (with the Public sector Unions a close second).
Generally speaking lower grade employees in the public sector are overpaid relative to their counterparts in the private sector. Higher skilled/ higher paid employees are paid the same or less but enjoy a much better pension, longer holidays, a shorter working week, better T’s and C’s and generally have a lower stress life.Well then, maybe you'd like to tell me who you're comparing like with like. Politicians and some of the media love publishing articles like public servants earning 40% more than private sector without giving detail and proper comparison. No, my observation is far from silly, it's actually true but there are some who will never even contemplate such a thing, including yourself. Engineer in private sector v engineer in public sector? Teacher v whoever you would compare with? Office staff in private v public? Garda v who? Nurse v who? Which profession in the jobs i've mentioned do one side earn 40% more than the other? I'm certain there's plenty in the private sector earning 40% and an awful lot more than people in the public sector and fair play to them, but that's not worth mentioning in the media .
I think you need to relax, be far less defensive, and actually read what I wrote. I simply offered my opinion. That opinion is based on y interaction with the State over the last 25 years including health services, government departments and government bodies at a personal level and as part of workshops and groups engaged in setting government policy in areas such as science and investment in industry as well as my training and experience in process development and LEAN in the private sector. That opinion is that the Public Sector bodies I have engaged with are generally grossly inefficient at a structural level. I think people work hard but they certainly don’t work smart. There are exceptions but in general that is my experience.You also make a sweeping statement that the PS is grossly inefficient? Care to tell us is it in nursing, teaching, etc? A bit off fact and proper data to back up your statements please and not something quoted from a TD/Senator. Like any organisation, be it private or state, there will always be something lacking but sweeping statements are very easy to speak and write about.
Generally speaking lower grade employees in the public sector are overpaid relative to their counterparts in the private sector.
as part of workshops and groups engaged in setting government policy in areas such as science and investment in industry as well as my training and experience in process development and LEAN in the private sector.
In the meantime old people will still die on trolleys, bereft of their dignity, and children with special needs will still not get the support they need. No amount of money will fix that. Increasing spending in health at it is currently structured is like pouring more water into a leaky bucket instead of fixing the hole. The vested interests within the healthcare industry including the doctors and nurses and administrators and managers and everyone else who don’t want to see their little silo attacked are responsible for that. It is their fault that the sick and the vulnerable don’t get the help they need. It is not the fault of a Minister or anyone else, just them
Right, so structural deficiencies in the day to day running of hospitals, the failure to identify, define and implement best practice is a failure of policy and not management... and that’s not bogus?This is bogus hyperbole. The reality is that it is policy that dictates the situations we find ourselves in.
If the policy over a couple of decades is to starve local authorities of money to build social housing, and public servants administer that policy, that is efficient public service. The policy is what is wrong, not the implementation of it.
Why, does nobody in the health service or local authorities have the wit or intellect to improve anything?Blaming health care professionals for waiting lists is bogus.
Blaming local authority staff for housing crisis is bogus.
Ah, I see; it’s all about ideology. Nothing to do with competence and structures. I’m glad you’re not running anything!It is the policy, which resonates with policies in UK, US and elsewhere that is the problem. All you have to do is follow UK, US media to see that the near mirror image of the social decay in those societies matches our own.
This is not coincidence, it is policy.
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