I've been thinking about this because you make an interesting point here. I would observe that there are just a few posters (very few, to be fair) who do appear to generalise across the entirety of the public service. No, I'm not going looking for quotes to back it up - I admit they're a small minority!
But you're right: quite a number of us are defensive. In my case - and I can speak only for myself - it's not that I think the civil or public service is perfect. My experience within the civil service has been that there are certain systemic problems. Thing is, they're nothing to do with bank time, or sick days, or obstructive unions - they're very significantly to do with managing assignments badly so people are placed in work to which they are just not suited. You may have someone at mid-level who is very good at, say, managing a large team of people doing routine work - but is placed as gofer and admin back-up for a small technical team. Or a person who's great on policy development put in a grant processing area even though they're border-line innumerate. Or a person who's good at dealing with the public, but is placed in a role where they have to write a lot even though they're plain bad at it.
All of them have actual real skills that we need, but are placed in roles where they are very nearly doomed to underperform - and much of that in the name of a "generalist" civil service where people are supposed to be able to turn their hands to any kind of work. Some people can, but many more can't.
There are people who are consistent non-performers in any role: yes, they are a drain.
There are others whose talents and abilities are not properly used: they too are a drain, but importantly it is not actually their fault and may not be for lack of effort (even though it's inevitably demotivating to be placed in a role you're completely unsuited to).
This is something that needs to be managed better for all our sakes. If we identify where people's greatest skills and aptitudes lie and assign them accordingly, then and only then can we identify the real deadwood - the people who can't be bothered or think they have no more than a sinecure.
So that's why I get defensive: because I think the wrong issues are being identified as "the problem with the public service".
But then, I'm not temperamentally suited to the kind of HR role I'd need to effect major change, so what can you do...
See above!
What makes you middle class or upper class?
I thought this was a republic, I hate class politics.
public sector class ( plenty of holidays, security, pensions, coffee breaks, sick days + pay )
There are 2 types of class in this country ; public sector class ( plenty of holidays, security, pensions, coffee breaks, sick days + pay ) and the rest of us. There will be riots yet.
10% in private sector and 90% in public sector. That's the problem.
Good point purple, I would not put myself into a class. I would see myself equal with the poorest person or the wealthiest person. No one person is better than another.
What makes somebody put themselves into a bracket such as upper class or any class?? I would say ignorance.
Good point purple, I would not put myself into a class. I would see myself equal with the poorest person or the wealthiest person. No one person is better than another.
What makes somebody put themselves into a bracket such as upper class or any class?? I would say ignorance.
To answer the original question, yes I'm sick of public service bashing. We're not perfect but neither are we the shower of wasters that some people are very anxious to convey. However, myself and my colleagues are also getting a bit of a laugh at some of the wilder stuff that's being bandied around. Our favourites so far are:
Civil servants get a half day a week to cash their pay check
Civil Servants have to take all their sick leave every year, and just add it on to their annual leave
Civil servants get flexi days, free, gratis and for nothing
I will also be adding to the list the statement that you must use 'pull' to get a civil service job. This is absolutely impossible to do and I do not know of one single person who has got a civil service job using pull. You must be thinking of the private sector.
At the end of the day, we shouldnt be arguing over who is going to take the hit on this. We should be knocking our heads together to figure out how we can all work together to get the country working again in a manner that spreads the "cost" fairly.
Unfortunately the people who are going to have to sort this mess out are the same people who caused it.
But if there was an election tomorrow I'd vote for you...
One thing that amazes me on this board is the amount of people stating that public service workers wouldn't last five minutes in the private sector. During the tiger years how many people were let down by builders, plumbers, electricians etc who failed to deliver on agreed contracts or didn't even bother to show up at all. How many people were delivered faulty goods only to find that the shop blamed the manufacturer, the manufacturer blamed the delivery firm, the delivery firm said it was nothing to do with them and the unfortunate consumer was left out of pocket. How many times were people left standing in shops while assistants leant on the counter chatting to each other. What about airlines who advertised cheap flights then added on all kinds of hidden charges once the non refundable fare had been paid, or solicitors who caused huge delays for people buying houses through laziness and inefficiency. Not to mention estate agents who lied through their teeth to get their commission. And there has been plenty of discussion on these boards about GPs charging ridiculous fees, refusing to make house calls, insisting patients make appointments then leaving them hanging around the waiting room for an hour. I could go on and on. Yes, the public sector has its faults and inefficiencies. But it amazes me the amount of private sector workers who are wandering around under the delusion that they are somehow examples of 'best practice'. Everyone is going to have to take some pain over the next few years including public service workers who are extremely grateful that they have relative job security.We accept that. It is the constant criticisms of us, by private sector workers who have nothing to boast or preen themselves about, that is p*ssing us all off.
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