Key Post PRSI and planning retirement

I honestly don't know yet if they are class S or A. I am pretty sure my contribution record actually says "VC" instead of a "proper class" but I am unsure now and will have to check. I never really thought very much about that. It seems I should. I suspect they are under class S because they were always a flat €500 from the beginning, but my situation is more complicated because I am only eligible to make voluntary contributions because I worked as a socially insured employee in another EU state, however my last PRSI contribution in Ireland was at class S due to rental income. I think I am doing well out of the "flat €500's" per year of contributions so I won't rock that boat too much. I will try to find out closer to the time what actual class my contributions are being made as I would not rule out a short stint of work in Ireland at age 65 if I can use it to ensure my VCs after that are at class A and can be made, health permitting etc.

Edit: I will have the option of an ARF at least. That is really worth bearing in mind and is definitely an argument in favor of the ARF vs the annuity at that stage.
 
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Thank you to those who contributed answers and additional questions to the key post. In particular to @S class for their superb knowledge. In some cases I have reworded to give 'general' questions and replies - do please let me know if I have picked anything up wrong. There are a few queries shown in RED on the key post if anyone can help. And I will continue to add further questions and answers as appropriate.
 
elcato said:
I signed back in the 80s for a few years on 'assistance' as it was known then but I have no reckonable or indeed any PRSI stamps for those years on my record. Should I have ? I presumed as I didn't have enough prior to that for JB that these years would not have counted. I will query it but just wondering would anyone know here anything obvious I'm missing.
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Qualifying Conditions in Summary​

When a person starts work for the first time, credits are awarded for a period prior to their first PRSI contribution (see Pre-entry Credits). Subsequently, insured workers may be awarded credits if they claim a social welfare payment because they are out of work, or they are ill or incapacitated, or if they are engaged in certain training or educational courses.
To be entitled to these credits, a person must have worked previously and have paid at least one PRSI contribution. Normally, if at any stage in their working life, a person has no PRSI paid or credited contributions for two full tax years, they cannot be awarded credits again until they return to work and pay PRSI contributions for at least 26 weeks. The value of a credit is generally the value of the last paid contribution.
The range of circumstances in which credits may be awarded are set out in greater detail below.


This is from the Operational Guidelines PRSI credited social insurance contributions.
This implies that you should be entitled to credits if you had one paid contribution.
Did you work before signing on ?
 
S class said:

​

Qualifying Conditions in Summary​

When a person starts work for the first time, credits are awarded for a period prior to their first PRSI contribution (see Pre-entry Credits). Subsequently, insured workers may be awarded credits if they claim a social welfare payment because they are out of work, or they are ill or incapacitated, or if they are engaged in certain training or educational courses.
To be entitled to these credits, a person must have worked previously and have paid at least one PRSI contribution. Normally, if at any stage in their working life, a person has no PRSI paid or credited contributions for two full tax years, they cannot be awarded credits again until they return to work and pay PRSI contributions for at least 26 weeks. The value of a credit is generally the value of the last paid contribution.
The range of circumstances in which credits may be awarded are set out in greater detail below.
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Does anyone know what kind of educational courses and would it be possible to claim these retrospectively?

Edit: Ah, I think I read it wrong. You had to have been claiming a social welfare payment because of the training/education course, right?
 
outofmymind said:
10. There is also something about needing some class A contributions the year you are 63 to get over65s benefit. Can anyone enlighten us??
Answer: The critical requirement for the 65s benefit is having at least 39 reckonable (A or S???) prsi contributions in the year of your 63rd birthday. If a person works until May of that year, they will need extra contributions to reach the 39 level. So they would require extra contributions (credits).
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The requirement for the 65s benefit is having at least 39 reckonable class A contributions in the year of your 63rd birthday. At least 13 need to be paid class A contributions. The remainder can be credited class A contributions.
 
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outofmymind said:
11. Can eligiblity for this over65s benefit be made up any other way?
Answer: There is flexibility regarding when the contributions need to be made. This is explained in the "Operational guidelines for 65s benefit". i.e. They do not necessarily have to be made during the year of the person's 63rd birthday. e.g. If a person does not have a minimum of 39 A contributions in the year of their 63rd birthday they can still qualify if they have a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 62nd birthday and also a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 61st birthday. There is a lot of detail in that document so see that if you have particular circumstances
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Answer: There is some flexibility regarding when the contributions need to be made.
This is explained in the "Operational guidelines for 65s benefit".

i.e. They do not necessarily have to be made during the year of the person's 63rd birthday.

If a person does not have a minimum of 39 A contributions in the year of their 63rd birthday they can still qualify if they have a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 62nd birthday and also a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 61st birthday.

If a person only has at least 39 credited contributions in the year of their 63rd birthday and cannot qualify using 26 paid contributions in the 2 years described above, they could still qualify.

They would need to have at least 13 paid class A contributions in any one of the following years.
The year of their 61st, 62nd, 64th or 65th birthday.

If they cannot qualify using any of the above they might also be able to qualify based on their class S Prsi contributions.

The rules for class S are complex and are explained in the Operating guidelines for 65s benefit.
 
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S class said:
Answer: There is some flexibility regarding when the contributions need to be made.
This is explained in the "Operational guidelines for 65s benefit".

i.e. They do not necessarily have to be made during the year of the person's 63rd birthday.

If a person does not have a minimum of 39 A contributions in the year of their 63rd birthday they can still qualify if they have a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 62nd birthday and also a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 61st birthday.

If a person only has at least 39 credited contributions in the year of their 63rd birthday and cannot qualify using 26 paid contributions in the 2 years described above, they could still qualify.

They would need to have at least 13 paid class A contributions in any one of the following years.
The year of their 61st, 62nd, 64th or 65th birthday.

If they cannot qualify using any of the above they might also be able to qualify based on their class S Prsi contributions.

The rules for class S are complex and are explained in the Operating guidelines for 65s benefit.
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Is it permitted to continue claiming reckonable PRSI credits once you begin drawing an occupational private pension at say age 61? If yes that seems one of the easier ways to gain eligibility for the over 65s payment while being mostly retired. You only need to work 13 weeks in any one of your 61st, 62nd, 64th or 65th years.
 
Kev1964 said:
Is it permitted to continue claiming reckonable PRSI credits once you begin drawing an occupational private pension at say age 61? If yes that seems one of the easier ways to gain eligibility for the over 65s payment while being mostly retired. You only need to work 13 weeks in any one of your 61st, 62nd, 64th or 65th years.
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Yes you can do that. Having a pension makes no difference. You can still be available for and seeking work as a pensioner up to age 66.
 
11. Can eligiblity for this over65s benefit be made up any other way?
Answer: There is flexibility regarding when the contributions need to be made. This is explained in the "Operational guidelines for 65s benefit". i.e. They do not necessarily have to be made during the year of the person's 63rd birthday. e.g. If a person does not have a minimum of 39 A contributions in the year of their 63rd birthday they can still qualify if they have a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 62nd birthday and also a minimum of 26 paid A contributions in the year of their 61st birthday.

So, if someone on Class A income at 61 retires on their 62nd birthday and draws down income from an ARF (at PRSI Class S), with no other Class A income, would that be reckonable towards the 65's benefit?
 
redstar said:
So, if someone on Class A income at 61 retires on their 62nd birthday and draws down income from an ARF (at PRSI Class S), with no other Class A income, would that be reckonable towards the 65's benefit?
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If the person's 62nd birthday was more than 26 weeks into the calender year they would qualify.

If their birthday is less than 26 weeks into the calendar year they would not qualify.
If this person was to sign on for class A credits and ensure that they have a minimum of 39 A credits for the calender year of their 63rd birthday, then they would qualify for 65s benefit.

The issue of having an ARF doesn't come into it. They should aim to qualify under the class A rules.

The class S Prsi rules are very complicated regarding qualification for 65s benefit.
 
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"If the person's 62nd birthday was more than 26 weeks into the calender year they would qualify."

62nd birthday is in December.
 
Thanks everyone, particularly @S class again for their contribution. One question somewhere in this thread that does not seem to have been answered is:
13. If you are signing for credits and not working do you need to be available for and seeking work? Answer: ????

I assume the answer is yes?
 
The answer is yes.
Anybody resident in the state, in good health and not otherwise occupied, as in for instance, full time careing, can state that they are available for work.
Seeking work can be anything from reading the situations vacant page of the newspapers. You will be required to agree to these rules when signing on.
In practice retirees will not be pursued to seek employment and anybody over age 62 is not required to engage with Social Protection in any job placements or training schemes.
 
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Are VC1 (A class) contributions reckonable towards the over 65s payment? I guess not. It probably won't affect me as I am unlikely to return to live in Ireland just for that benefit but you never know where life will take you.
 
murphaph1 said:
Are VC1 (A class) contributions reckonable towards the over 65s payment? I guess not. It probably won't affect me as I am unlikely to return to live in Ireland just for that benefit but you never know where life will take you.
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No unfortunately not.
The rules for class S state that if you get 52 class S contributions in the calender year of your 63rd birthday and then cease self employment in a certain time frame after this you can qualify. If you sold your rental property or stopped the rental on it during this timeframe it might allow you to qualify. This would be a lot of hassle and I would not be certain it would work.
 
@S class thanks for your information in this thread, but can you give a little more steer re S class and 65 benefit. My husband turns 65 in Oct 2025, he will have S class for his 63rd birthday year - 2023. Ideally he'd like to give up work when 65, he has worked for 50 years.

What do you mean by "cease self employment in a certain time frame". Would stopping work at 65 not be it?
 
Below are the rules for ceasing employment or self employment.

Provided he has his 52 S contributions for his 63rd year, he can then cease self employment any time up to age 65.

If he ceased work before he reaches age 65 he would probably also qualify for Jobseekers benefit self employed.

Cease around February 2025 and claim JBSE for 9 months to age 65.



Have ceased employment or self-employment​

To qualify for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds a person must have fully ceased employment or self-employment. If a person is still in employment or self-employment they should be advised to apply for Jobseeker’s Benefit or Jobseeker’s Benefit (Self-Employed).
If a person commences casual or part-time work while in receipt of Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds, their claim must be closed and the person should be advised to apply for Jobseeker’s Benefit or Jobseeker’s Benefit (Self-Employed)




These are the rules for a self employed person who also has an ARF.
  • the person has sustained the loss of self-employment in their usual occupation (A person’s usual occupation is one where the type of work a person ordinarily performs for most of the time is by virtue of experience and/or training and is within a particular field of work).
  • and the loss of the usual self-employment occurred since the beginning of the second last complete calendar year before the year in which the application is made. For example, in order to qualify for a claim made in 2022, the applicant’s usual self-employed business must have closed on or after 01 January 2020. If the usual business closed before this date, JBSE and consequently BP65 is not payable.
 
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S class said:
This implies that you should be entitled to credits if you had one paid contribution.
Did you work before signing on ?
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S class said:
To be entitled to these credits, a person must have worked previously and have paid at least one PRSI contribution. Normally, if at any stage in their working life, a person has no PRSI paid or credited contributions for two full tax years, they cannot be awarded credits again until they return to work and pay PRSI contributions for at least 26 weeks. The value of a credit is generally the value of the last paid contribution.
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The first line makes me eligible as I had worked for 4 months a few years prior to signing on but the part in Italics appears then to say I am not entitled as it was less than 2 years of credited stamps.
To make matters more complicated I did a degree course (full time) while on the JA which took a further 4 years. I will contact them with these quotes and questions and report back in a while as it takes away from this excellent thread.
 
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