Proposal to cut public spending

[ATC110]

John Moran, Former Secretary General Department of Finance, talks about the need to cut public spending without affecting capital expenditure and alludes to cutting public sector pay.

Finally an ex-senior civil servant making the case for prudent decisions.

[broken link removed]

 

[Deiseblue]

John Moran is not a senior civil servant and hasn’t been since 2014 !
An extremely interesting interview where he pointed out that everything should be on the table including continuing borrowing at the current low rates although noting that this will adversely effect future generations.
He also questioned election promises to protect current ages at which people receive the old age pension.
He also appeared to question whether current income tax rates could be maintained ?
He certainly referred to possibly cutting public sector pay but seemed to suggest that unlike the private sector and particularly the small business sector the public sector had the benefit of strong unionised voices .
He also pointed out that the current Government and any upcoming Government have said that they won’t increase income tax or reduce public spending.
It should be interesting to see if the 2% reimbursement of Public Sector pay in October next as agreed on 2019 will be paid.

 

[Purple]

2% reimbursement of Public Sector pay in October next as agreed on 2019 will be paid.

The Public Sector Unions will stop any cuts to pay for their members. They will continue to exploit the poor and vulnerable in order to maintain their income.
I find the invention of new phrases to describe pay increases fascinating.

 

[Sunny]

Shine lights, clap hands but don't give those health workers their agreed payrise!

Ah it has already started...….Sure lets ignore economic reality and lets give them 20%. Or is that not enough appreciation for doing the job they chose they do and were trained to do. It is a bloody tough job but they are not heroes.

By the way, shining lights and clapping was always ridiculous. Just like having pilots on the Late Late Show for flying a plane with PPE from China.

 

[Deiseblue]

In fairness Sunny the only reimbursement of previously foregone pay on the cards is the previously agreed 2% in October next .
I think the current public perception of nurses and doctors is that they are risking their lives in combating Covid-19 and that indeed they are heroes , this is a view that is also generally shared across the media whether by way of TV , radio or papers and social media.

 

[Vanessa]

Ah it has already started...….Sure lets ignore economic reality and lets give them 20%. Or is that not enough appreciation for doing the job they chose they do and were trained to do. It is a bloody tough job but they are not heroes.

By the way, shining lights and clapping was always ridiculous. Just like having pilots on the Late Late Show for flying a plane with PPE from China.

Maybe we should be asking why we werent able to source PPE if not in Irelqnd at least in the EU.
In any case its important to give Covid survivor Turbridy his time in the sun

 

[Sunny]

In fairness Sunny the only reimbursement of previously foregone pay on the cards is the previously agreed 2% in October next .
I think the current public perception of nurses and doctors is that they are risking their lives in combating Covid-19 and that indeed they are heroes , this is a view that is also generally shared across the media whether by way of TV , radio or papers and social media.

Well if the media say it, it must be true. It makes good reading but that is all. We all have relations who are doctors and nurses. It is a tough job but fighting viruses like this is what they are trained to do. It is what they are paid the do. The scandal isn't what they are paid. It is that they are expected to their job with no and sub standard equipment and facilities.

While everyone was clapping for the NHS and HSE staff, did anyone clap for the low paid care staff going into Nursing homes and being completely ignored by the HSE and Government until it was to late. Was anyone clapping for all the other people who continued to go into work stacking supermarket shelves with zero protection to see TD's decide it was too dangerous for them for to sit in the Dail for two hours but it was ok for other people.

Was anyone clapping the people trying to work and mind and educate their children so we have some sort of economy to come back. Clap the small business owners who are trying desperately to stay afloat. Was anyone clapping the delivery drivers, the bus drivers, the people who have lost their jobs. Was anyone clapping the children who have been stuck isolating for nearly three months. Was anyone clapping the social workers, the homeless shelters, the abuse shelters

If you want to care healthcare workers heroes, then that's fine. But there are lots of heroes out there. And they all deserve a bit fat reward. That's not how reality works though.

 

[Deiseblue]

I agree with you totally , there are innumerable people out there doing sterling work for which they should be admired and thanked - personally I thank the postman , the bus driver , the supermarket staff , cafe staff and all others for making our life bearable at this hugely trying time.
My greatest admiration is for those doctors and nurses who are risking infection and possible death every day and yes I believe that they are heroes , would you agree that my perception is generally shared by the majority of the Country currently?

 

[Sunny]

I agree with you totally , there are innumerable people out there doing sterling work for which they should be admired and thanked - personally I thank the postman , the bus driver , the supermarket staff , cafe staff and all others for making our life bearable at this hugely trying time.
My greatest admiration is for those doctors and nurses who are risking infection and possible death every day and yes I believe that they are heroes , would you agree that my perception is generally shared by the majority of the Country currently?

No idea and does it really matter what people think of them? We are borrowing 30,000,000,000 this year and that is not worse case scenario. So I don't think it is disrespectful to maybe just think that people might just want to wait before jumping and down for their 2% payrise promised or not until we actually have a functioning economy.

 

[Purple]

No idea and does it really matter what people think of them? We are borrowing 30,000,000,000 this year and that is not worse case scenario. So I don't think it is disrespectful to maybe just think that people might just want to wait before jumping and down for their 2% payrise promised or not until we actually have a functioning economy.

If there was a list of people who deserve a pay increase I wouldn't put doctors who earn hundreds of thousands a year and nurses, with an average pay of over €54,000 a year (over €70,000 if you factor in the value of their pension) at the top of the list. Most are working hard and doing all they can now but these are the same people who have resisted reform for decades and are a key factor in why our health service is so shambolic, despite one of the highest per capita spends in the world.

 

[odyssey06]

I agree with you totally , there are innumerable people out there doing sterling work for which they should be admired and thanked - personally I thank the postman , the bus driver , the supermarket staff , cafe staff and all others for making our life bearable at this hugely trying time.
My greatest admiration is for those doctors and nurses who are risking infection and possible death every day and yes I believe that they are heroes , would you agree that my perception is generally shared by the majority of the Country currently?

And yet if you think about it the people who faced the highest risk of death, and suffered the highest death toll, were the people just trying to survive in nursing & care homes.
Maybe the money should be going as much as possible on keeping people in their own homes.

 

[Deiseblue]

No idea and does it really matter what people think of them? We are borrowing 30,000,000,000 this year and that is not worse case scenario. So I don't think it is disrespectful to maybe just think that people might just want to wait before jumping and down for their 2% payrise promised or not until we actually have a functioning economy.

Of course it matters what people think of them given the thread title - the huge admiration for their efforts to date means it's inconceivable that any Government would impose cuts on wages particularly as the Government and their successors have stated that income tax rates will remain unchanged and public spending will not be cut.
Nobody is jumping up and down looking for the 2% - I merely wondered whether or not it would be paid ?
Guess we'll simply have to wait to what happens in terms of the economy re-opening

 

[ATC110]

the public sector had the benefit of strong unionised voices .

Therein lies the problem

It should be interesting to see if the 2% reimbursement of Public Sector pay in October next as agreed on 2019 will be paid.

"Reimbursement".... Surely even the shameless PS unions will cancel this 2% increase

 

[Leo]

And yet if you think about it the people who faced the highest risk of death, and suffered the highest death toll, were the people just trying to survive in nursing & care homes.

Some of what you hear from those going into these homes really calls into question the notion of some of these carers as heros!!

 

[Deiseblue]

Therein lies the problem


"Reimbursement".... Surely even the shameless PS unions will cancel this 2% increase

I am hopeful that the current crisis will emphasise the benefits of Union membership , I have always found that you are far better off being in a Union than not.
The 2% in question has been negotiated and agreed by the current Government - who knows at this juncture whether or not they will pay it or enter into negotiations with the Unions.

 

[ATC110]

I am hopeful that the current crisis will emphasise the benefits of Union membership , I have always found that you are far better off being in a Union than not.

The purpose of the public service is not to benefit those supposed to be delivering the service

The 2% in question has been negotiated and agreed by the current Government - who knows at this juncture whether or not they will pay it or enter into negotiations with the Unions.

Hopefully they just won't pay it for obvious reasons, no discussion or negotiation necessary

 

[Deiseblue]

And the purpose of Unions is to protect and where possible enchance the terms and conditions of it's members.
Let's not be naive here - they'll either pay the 2% or negotiate .

 

[ATC110]

And the purpose of Unions is to protect and where possible enchance the terms and conditions of it's members.

Regardless of how this affects the public and the indebtedness of the country.

There's an opportunity now for the government to introduce emergency legislation to dissolve the public sector unions for the common good.

 

[Deiseblue]

Yeah , I would 'nt hold your breath - an absolute pipe dream.
It's everyone's right under the constitution to join a Union.
You might also like to reflect on the impact an all out strike would have on any tentative economic recovery

 

[Purple]

Yes, Unions have never hesitated to put a gun to the head of the poor and the vulnerable in order to blackmail the government of the day into giving their members even more.