Property Secrets, any good?

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First of all, I agree that there is a lot of potential in Romania, but I would suggest that your projections for residential in Constanta are overstated. The city is one of the best bets in Europe, but nothing like what you are suggesting. I tend to be wary of peope who can foretell the future as you are doing with such certainty; most reputable property sales companies will refuse to speculate on future prices of property that they are selling.

I accept that you do not consider that PS is a high pressure sales outfit, and that half an hour may well be a reasonable length of time for a buyer to make an informed decision about a substantial purchase. I would prefer a bit more myself; do you think that you may at some time consider extending this to maybe 45 minutes or so?

I also accept your statement that you do not take commissions from developers; your unique and generous stance on this matter, added to your ability to see into the future with such clarity, makes yours a paragon among property agencies. The developers must love you; to allow them to pocket the commissions that they would otherwise have to pay over must give them a lot of joy.
 
Bnage said:
Hi Guys,

Im very interested in this thread as I work for Property Secrets. I am the Purchase Support Manager and deal with potential clients presale. I was only on this website as I had an issue that was not work related...small world.

Let me put a few people straight here.

We are a reputable company who make no commission from the developers or lawyers. We charge a finders fee for the sourcing of the deal and putting together of the contracts etc. We also offer support on the off plan development you have bought until handover.

We are in no way dodgy and work to tight regulations. Timescales are tight because that is just the business we are in. Clients have around a week to make a decision as paperwork and contracts are being drawn up to order. Our figures are not exagerated and are backed up by previous investments that can be viewed on the site.

We promote areas like Poland and Romania as that is where the most capital gains can be made. We are in no way pushy and have never employed the hard sell. To back this up, I am the only person dealing with sales on the team, the rest are research, systems and support. And there are over 30 of us.

Finally, we dont deal with Bulgaria and we dont guarentee any rental incomes. This investment is all about capital gains and is a long term investment. Rental voids do happen and openly admit that. This is long term investment and if you are happy to wait 5 years you will reap the benefits.

If anyone has any questions about PS I would be more than happy to answer them. And yes there is a deal on the site right now in Romania and yes you can expect to make a lot of money out of it. If I were paid more I would buy a couple of units myself!!
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Bnage, do you have verifiable figures on net rental yields in the developments you are marketing? Why don't you market investments in Bulgaria?
 
auto320 said:
I accept that you do not consider that PS is a high pressure sales outfit, and that half an hour may well be a reasonable length of time for a buyer to make an informed decision about a substantial purchase. I would prefer a bit more myself; do you think that you may at some time consider extending this to maybe 45 minutes or so?
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I dont know where or why this 30 minutes has popped up from. We dont give this time for decisions at all. You need to register interest on a deal quickly, upon launch but this is down to how popular they are. When a deal opens a client has 10 - 14 days to make a decision. I am afraid 'auto320' that you have been misinformed, or not been on the website??

Constanta has great potential and the deal online right now was taken at a pre-launch price. This means when it is launched the price per square metre will be higher, thus guaranteeing immediate gain. I am not lucky enough to have been to the area but from what I have read and heard I can see the potential. Prices are still cheap (for Romania) so plenty of gains can still be had. And maybe we can see into the future... I for one was just waiting for a response like yours and you duly you came up trumps!

Duplex: We do have predicted rental yields on every development we promote although it is 'predicted' using similar developments. We have some deals now complete in Czech and Slovakia so can reflect on that for figures.

We dont market Bulgaria for a number of reasons, many of which I wouldnt want to go into. The main one is because many of the investments people talk about are holiday lets on ski resorts. We concentrate on buy to let and look for developments that would be let all year round.
 
If you look on page 1 of this thread, you will find the "30 minutes", which is what I believe auto123 was referring to, and which you seem to endorse. How quickly? Is speed a sine qua non of successful property investment?
 
zsizsik said:
If you look on page 1 of this thread, you will find the "30 minutes", which is what I believe auto123 was referring to, and which you seem to endorse. How quickly? Is speed a sine qua non of successful property investment?
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Yes I read that and it is incorrect. As I said, you need to register within 30 minutes. Resitering does not oblige you to buy nor does it mean you will receive a sales call. It merely enables you to download the Investment Pack. You then have up to 2 weeks to make your decision.

Expecting someone to make a decision on a spend of 50k Euros plus is ridiculous and we do not do that.
 
I think everyone has been missled when I said 30minutes. What I meant was that you need to register for the information pack within about 30minutes if you want to be in with a chance of sequring a popular unit (i.e. 1bed 50m2) in the development.

Responding to the initial email doesnt tie you into the deal or even responding to the second one some 2weeks later. To befair to PS there is no hard sell at all.

Whilst your on Bnage is there any plans to change the system because if your not online youve no chance of getting in on any deal?

Also can you update the 'previous investments' section with some accurate completion dates. I bought into Westland Court 2 but can't find out when completion is planned. Initially I was told Nov 07 then Jan 08. Any ideas? Obviously it help for me to know so I can arrange a mortgage in time.

I would recommend to anyone sceptical on PS to go to one of their evenings in the UK. I went to one in Manchester and was impressed with the people there. They do a lot of objective research on the various european markets and there was no BS that you get from a lot of the big firms or any hard sell.
 
I can see your frustration with the 'online' situation. I will address this with the right persons and come back to the forum with any positive changes. We are an online business, which is why it is important that our clients are online a lot of the time. If you are interested in a certain area of CEE then you can always keep in touch with me via email and I will let you know when something is coming up. PM me for my work email address.

You did well to buy on Westland Court 2. The first phase sold out also and has already seen growth of 32% in just over 4 months. Let me know who you are by PM and I will email you with an update tomorrow. Either that or I will get someone in Client Services to call you.

PS thanks for your comments ringledman
 
regarding the previous 2 posters. Is this a version of the 'roll up, roll up' double act.?
I am getting a bad smell here.
 
ringledman has stated above that he has no connection to Property Secrets, but in one of his earliest posts he mentioned that he works in construction management.

This doesn't of course prove that there's any kind of 'double act' going on here. I guess people will draw their own conclusions, or perhaps ringledman and Bnage will clarify their positions themselves?
 
I'd also say, for what it's worth, that it is impossible to throw out 5 year figures in the realms of what Property Secrets are stating as regards capital appreciation. I'd love to see their analysis! Perhaps Bnage will share it with us?

Likewise, to say that properties in this particular Constanta development have appreciated by 32% in 4 months is quite simply ludicrous. What Bnage wants to say is that the Phase II releases are priced at 32% above the initial release 4 months ago. Not, by a long shot, the same thing at all. Who can say what the gain is when nothing has been sold yet by an original purchaser to another buyer?

My own experience has been that property prices in Romania are, on average, increasing by between 15 & 25% year on year.

I base that on my own purchasing and selling experience, out here in Romania, and solely within my own portfolio of property.
 
ringledman has stated above that he has no connection to Property Secrets, but in one of his earliest posts he mentioned that he works in construction management.

This doesn't of course prove that there's any kind of 'double act' going on here. I guess people will draw their own conclusions, or perhaps ringledman and Bnage will clarify their positions themselves?
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Look, how many times do I have to say that I have no connection to the company except for buying a property through them?

Why is that so hard to believe? If I've had good service off a company then why shouldn't I say so?

Yes I work in Construction Management. I build hospitals, apartments. roads etc in Manchester. Hardly any connection to a company selling overseas properties!
 
Just had a quick skite through Property Secrets website.

They are quoting 400 Euros per month rental for a studio ( Garsoniera in Romanian parlance) and 500 Euros per month on a 1 bed apartment (Apartament cu 2 camera) with a 4 week void period.

These prices are ridiculous! Speaking as a 'local', plastic paddy and all that, the best you could achieve from the locals would be around 150 Euro per month on the 'studio' and, perhaps, 250 Euro/month on the 1 bed. That's assuming your tenants are local and live and work in the area.

If you are looking at holiday lets then the Studio will bring in around 500 RON/ week (about 145 Euro) and the 1 bed about 800 RON/week (around 230 Euro).

You'll do well to let for more than the middle of May to the middle of September.

You might get a week or twos rent around Christmas and New Year and another week at Easter, maybe!!

Note there is little or no advantage to renting to the foriegners who visit unless you can persuade them to pay crazy lets. If they do their homework they will see that there is far better value to be had elsewhere.

Outside of the season ( see above) the sea will be frozen and there will be no market for your investment.

In Constanta expect to pay around 36-42k for a Studio and about 60k for a 1 bed flat. That's what the developers will be selling them to the locals at.

Bnage states that he/she hasn't been to Constanta but has read loads of encouraging reports on the place. Well folks if you are comfortable in buying a property on that basis and from someone not much better informed than you are, then off you pop.

The craziness of all this blows my mind!
 
I predicted here in this forum in recent weeks that the sharks would soon be playing their games in Romania, and this seems like the start of it. The same s***e we have seen elsewhere, the "too good to be true" scenarios that suck in the gullible with the usual blend of exaggeration and seeing the future so clearly.

As a previous poster said, there is a world of difference between property going up by 35% and being put up by that amount by the developer, but this is a feature of every hyped market. We have seen this kind of hype being used to great effect in Bulgaria and Turkey, where people think that they are doing well on an investment because subsequent buyers have paid even more.

The real pity of this, in this case, is that Romania offers excellent oportunities to investors, but only as long as they buy at local market rates and at prices that locals are actually paying. Contrary to what many people think, locals are paying good money for property in Romania, and good steady gains are being made on the right properties. The market there has been almost entirely local up to now, but we are seeing here the first of a small number of developments aimed mainly at foreigners, with its pricing not linked to local values. The prices in this development in Constanta however seem too high for what it is, and the projected rents are way off the mark -- by a mile. Believe me, I know this city well; I have been investing there for more than a decade, but I wouldn't touch this one though. There is no need for anyone to buy this kind of thing when there are loads of good-value oportunities there for anyone who cares to look.
 
Ancutza said:
Bnage states that he/she hasn't been to Constanta but has read loads of encouraging reports on the place. Well folks if you are comfortable in buying a property on that basis and from someone not much better informed than you are, then off you pop.

The craziness of all this blows my mind!
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I am office based but the Investment Broker goes out to source the deal and confirm contracts. He then spends time on conference calls to myself and other members of the team. Reports are sent to me and I then in turn answer any questions our clients have.

I have certainly not been referred to as a shark before, nor has the company I work for. We have hundreds of happy clients who continue to come back to us and buy dozens of units.

The rental yield predictions are not at current prices but when the development completes in 2 years time; when the market will have moved forward and increased considerably.

As a company we have to provide 5 year forecasts on the website; this is all part of the pack we provide. The analysis team compile these figures and looking at previous developments are not often far from being correct.
 
I used PS to purchase an apartment in krackow (Future City 2b) about 9 months ago. So far I have found them to provide a good service. No hard sell experienced here. If I'd had more cash I'd have bought a few more.
So far their expected returns have proved correct on my unit. The prices are going crazy over there.
 
BK0001 said:
So far their expected returns have proved correct on my unit. The prices are going crazy over there.
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Have you actually sold the apartment and banked the money? or are you basing this on what an overseas property agent with a vested interest is telling you?
 
Until you've sold the apartment and put the money in the bank then all talk of yields are just plain BS.
 
Haven't sold yet. So technically you guys are correct. Still happy with the deal I got through PS. As a first time purchase abroad, they hold your hand with regards lawyers, escrow bank accounts, signing contracts etc.
The service PS provide suits me is all I'm saying.
 
Projected rents on their Constanta property are well out of line with local norms, certainly not achievable in my view. Can't comment with certainty on the price of the project, seems expensive, but I will know better in a couple of months when I have a look at it, which I will do at some stage. One thing I am sure of; there is much better value to be had in Constanta than this if you are looking for an actual investment that will perform well over time.

However we should remember that a lot of people prefer to believe marketing hype as long as the process is trouble free and they don't have to make a bit of an effort with their investment. Many buyers of foreign property do not actually look too hard at the figures as long as it looks cheap compared to their home patch; they figure that all these properties will come up to Irish prices eventually! In the meantime, anything with a well defined path, where there is no thinking to be done, just sign a few forms, is fine with them. In other words, this project will probably do ok for the promotors, although their apparent lack of expertise in that market is scary.
 
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