Prize Bonds are looking attractive alternatives to deposits

Another winless draw for my 100k last Friday. AFAIK the chance of winning a 100 euro prize was reduced after the 1st January but the chance of winning 50 remained the same. I haven't won anything since the 13th December. Should have bought BOI shares!

I have often heard conspiracy theories about people winning prizes shortly after purchasng PBs then winning nothing after that. Although I don't really see how there can be truth to that rumour, my pattern of wins followed by no wins is making me wonder.

04th Oct - 50
11th Oct - 0
18th Oct - 50
25th Oct - 0
01st Nov - 0
08th Nov - 100 (2 x 50)
15th Nov - 50
22nd Nov - 150 (1 x 50, 1 x 100)
29th Nov - 0
06th Dec - 0
13th Dec - 100 (1 x 100)
20th Dec - 0
27th Dec - 0
03rd Jan - 0
10th Jan - 0
17th Jan - 0
24th Jan - 0
 
Hi
I have a similar pattern Ghoul,won for first few weeks up to end of
December (€50) each time, won nothing since,id just like to know how the numbers are drawn,I have also heard the conspiracy theories that bonds bought recently seem to win more often,this was given more weight when the woman at the Post Office where i lodge my winnings asked me did i buy the bonds lately,when i confirmed that i had,she said that it was the case that recent bonds do win more often,Every week she said she received a list and could see the dates bought.

PS...maybe this warrants some deeper investigation.


Pat
 
I've a sibling who anecdotally reports similar for an investment of several tens of thousands (enough that prizes should broadly average out) -- number of prizes dropped after initial purchase several years ago. Been meaning to look at exact probabilities with him.

In the meantime, Ghoul, I took a quick look at your chances of going six weeks without a prize. From my write-up on page 1 of this thread, your 100k investment should win 23.5 x €50 prizes per year. Assume the chances are spread evenly throughout the year (which may not be exactly true, but it will suit a rough calculation).

How do we calculate the odds of zero wins for a period? Think of a coin toss with a fifty-fifty (i.e. 1/2) chance of winning. If we consider your chances of winning at least once in a sequence of several tosses, it gets messy because you could win on the first toss, or the second, or both, or basically any combination of the tosses. But if we instead consider the odds of not winning, that's a lot easier. To not win, you have to not win on the first toss and not on the second and not on the third etc. Combining odds this way (event one and event two and ...) is simply multiplicative, and since the odds of losing each toss are the same as the odds of winning, it's:

gif.latex


The prize bonds situation is very similar, but we'll do it in decimals instead of fractions. As mentioned, you'll win 23.5 prizes on average each year. That's 23.5/52 = 0.452 per week. That's your chance of winning each week and, since you must either win or not win, your chance of not winning each week is (1 - 0.452) = 0.548. So your chances of not winning for n weeks is simply 0.548 multiplied by itself n times, or
gif.latex
.

So for the six week run you've just had, it's
gif.latex
approx. That means your odds were a bit better than one in forty of not winning. Not enough to support a conspiracy theory ... yet ... it's the sort of thing you'd expect to see once a year perhaps. Also bear in mind your average number of €50 prizes still currently works out at 18 in a year, which is on the low side but well within the probability distribution (see the graph on page 1). But I'd be keeping an eye on it -- another two or three weeks without a win (odds of one or two hundred to one) and there would start being a serious whiff of rat. CRC and Rehab would be in the ha'penny place compared to a Prize Bonds scandal. ;)

EDIT: I see that the prize fund went down by about 10% for 2014, so you are now only expecting about 21 prizes per year, which puts you even more in the ball park -- your odds of six weeks in the doldrums are now only slightly worse than one in twenty.

EDIT2: The number of bonds held has been growing by double digit percentages for some years, which would go some way toward explaining why newer bonds win preferentially. Also there is a reasonably high turnover in bonds, with anecdotal evidence that many are bought throughout the year and encashed at year end, so the odds of winning early in the year may be slightly diminished compared to the back half of the year.
 
Another great post, dub_nerd. Thanks. Just on the reduction of the prize fund, I was under the impression that this only affected the 100 euro prizes and would therefore not affect the chance of winning 50?

prizebonds.ie said:
€20,000 awarded each week, other than when the €1 Million prize is awarded.
5 €1,000 prizes.
500 €100 prizes (reducing to 250 from January 2014)
Over 8,000 €50 prizes.
 
Thanks for the correction, The_Ghoul, I didn't notice that. It looks to me like the reduction in the number of €100 prizes will account for about half the prize fund reduction from 1.75% to 1.6%. The other half will presumably be from €50 prizes, which will reduce your expected number of wins on a €100k investment from 23.5 to 22 per annum.
 
Hi
I have a similar pattern Ghoul,won for first few weeks up to end of
December (€50) each time, won nothing since,id just like to know how the numbers are drawn,I have also heard the conspiracy theories that bonds bought recently seem to win more often,this was given more weight when the woman at the Post Office where i lodge my winnings asked me did i buy the bonds lately,when i confirmed that i had,she said that it was the case that recent bonds do win more often,Every week she said she received a list and could see the dates bought.

PS...maybe this warrants some deeper investigation.


Pat

The same thing has happened to me!
I win prizes soon after purchasing bonds?!
 
The same thing has happened to me!
I win prizes soon after purchasing bonds?!

And me. Bought in March. Won a few prizes in April and May.
Nothing since.


Must cash them in on a regular basis and buy again.
 
It's impossible to say how likely or unlikely a run of bad (or good) luck is without knowing how much the investment is. But if it's less than several tens of thousands you can expect "lumpy" returns.
 
Nothing today, 7th week in a row.

04th Oct - 50
11th Oct - 0
18th Oct - 50
25th Oct - 0
01st Nov - 0
08th Nov - 100 (2 x 50)
15th Nov - 50
22nd Nov - 150 (1 x 50, 1 x 100)
29th Nov - 0
06th Dec - 0
13th Dec - 100 (1 x 100)
20th Dec - 0
27th Dec - 0
03rd Jan - 0
10th Jan - 0
17th Jan - 0
24th Jan - 0
31st Jan - 0
 
Nothing today, 7th week in a row.

Based on my new guesstimate that you should now be winning 22 x €50 prizes per year for a €100k investment, your odds of not winning seven weeks in a row are:

gif.latex


The odds against 8, 9 , and 10 weeks without wins are, respectively, 80-1, 140-1, and 243-1. (Those are the a priori odds, of course. Being already on a 7 week losing streak, your odds of going 8 or 9 are much improved ;)).
 
8th week in a row :mad:

04th Oct - 50
11th Oct - 0
18th Oct - 50
25th Oct - 0
01st Nov - 0
08th Nov - 100 (2 x 50)
15th Nov - 50
22nd Nov - 150 (1 x 50, 1 x 100)
29th Nov - 0
06th Dec - 0
13th Dec - 100 (1 x 100)
20th Dec - 0
27th Dec - 0
03rd Jan - 0
10th Jan - 0
17th Jan - 0
24th Jan - 0
31st Jan - 0
07th Feb - 0
 
Love the general positivity of this thread.

Methinks if the Plus Odds on Prize Bonds stay more than Banks give on deposit, our Banks will engineer a change , in the same way that they whinged about Post Office accounts.
 
For me it has been zero wins for three months with 19000 invested. An instant acesss account like TSB Bonus Booster would be paying about 70 Euro after tax in that period.
 
For 19k you expect to win 4 prizes a year, so 3 months without a win is not greatly surprising. The problem is that with a smaller investment you are likely to go much longer before achieving an "average" return. The_Ghoul's chances of going 8 weeks without a prize are the same as yours of getting no prizes for a year.
 
You're starting to look decidedly hard done by.
Maybe I'm one of Jill Kerby's "prize idiots" :)

My bad run is interesting from a statistical point of view and thank you again for your posts and calcs in this thread. Going at least 8 draws without a win was unlikely but so too was winning two 100 euro prizes in the first 11 weeks.

It does show that even with a relatively large amount invested that returns can be "lumpy".
 
Yeah actually, joking aside, you're not looking at all disastrous from an averages point of view. With a bit over a third of your first year gone you have the equivalent of 10 x 50 prizes. You got more than your share of 100's ... with the reductions from January you only stand to win 0.75 x 100's on average in a year. Thanks for keeping us updated. Will be interesting to see how it progresses if you don't mind posting every so often.
 
Back
Top