Prime Time on public service "Union appointed avc providers Vs Notional Service"
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Kildare123
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Like all things we need to check it out. The NSP scheme for me was not an option because i wanted to retire early (before 60) so the NSP scheme was useless to me. At least I have saved loads of tax in the meantime!
DngDing,
Thats a great site for pensions
DngDing,
Thats a great site for pensions
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Thanks for the reply DingDong.
Only circular (related to pensions) I can find that we received in school from DES was the following:
PENSION
Circular 0018/2008
Pension Scheme for Caretakers employed in Primary Schools and paid salary directly by the Department of Education and Science (1979 Scheme)
February 2008
(Double checked .... that's all we got)
Thanks for the reply DingDong.
Only circular (related to pensions) I can find that we received in school from DES was the following:
PENSION
Circular 0018/2008
Pension Scheme for Caretakers employed in Primary Schools and paid salary directly by the Department of Education and Science (1979 Scheme)
February 2008
(Double checked .... that's all we got)
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Where as the site deals with Civil Servants, Public Servants would be similar. I would ask your payroll section for advice. I am a Public Servant, and the quotation I got for purchasing notional service was within a couple of percent of what was on the site.
Where as the site deals with Civil Servants, Public Servants would be similar. I would ask your payroll section for advice. I am a Public Servant, and the quotation I got for purchasing notional service was within a couple of percent of what was on the site.
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applebuddy
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Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Eddie Hobbs sold my cousin an AVC. Seriously.
Eddie Hobbs sold my cousin an AVC. Seriously.
Brendan Burgess
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Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
You are missing the point. There is nothing wrong with AVCs. If your cousin had a choice of NSP and AVCs, then Eddie would have/should have done a comparison of both. My understanding is that public servants don't really have a choice of brokers. They must deal with an agent specified by their Trade Union. In many of the big schemes, this agent is Cornmarket.
Brendan
You are missing the point. There is nothing wrong with AVCs. If your cousin had a choice of NSP and AVCs, then Eddie would have/should have done a comparison of both. My understanding is that public servants don't really have a choice of brokers. They must deal with an agent specified by their Trade Union. In many of the big schemes, this agent is Cornmarket.
Brendan
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Are all civil servants a member of a trade union? Even if they are why do they have to deal only with a particular agent? Is this not anti competitive?
Are all civil servants a member of a trade union? Even if they are why do they have to deal only with a particular agent? Is this not anti competitive?
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
I am raging I missed this programme.
I am about to pay a lump sum today into my pension on the advice of my accountant -tax saving measure. Just wondering now if I am doing the right thing. IMPACT union provided Marsh as the advisors originally. Are all these guys like Cornmarket?? Large ads in IMPACT magazine from Cornmarket!!
I am raging I missed this programme.
I am about to pay a lump sum today into my pension on the advice of my accountant -tax saving measure. Just wondering now if I am doing the right thing. IMPACT union provided Marsh as the advisors originally. Are all these guys like Cornmarket?? Large ads in IMPACT magazine from Cornmarket!!
ubiquitous
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Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Yes you are - provided you steer well clear from the few brokers that seem to be in the pockets of the unions who in turn seem happy to have their members pay high charges when they should in fact be getting group discounts.
You're much better off going to reputable discount brokers like www.ferga.com or http://www.labrokers.ie
Yes you are - provided you steer well clear from the few brokers that seem to be in the pockets of the unions who in turn seem happy to have their members pay high charges when they should in fact be getting group discounts.
You're much better off going to reputable discount brokers like www.ferga.com or http://www.labrokers.ie
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Here are the DES circulars on pensions, including NSP:
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?pcategory=10815&ecategory=31060&language=EN
Here are the DES circulars on pensions, including NSP:
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?pcategory=10815&ecategory=31060&language=EN
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Here are the rates for buying notional service:
http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/pen11_05.doc?language=EN
Here are the rates for buying notional service:
http://www.education.ie/servlet/blobservlet/pen11_05.doc?language=EN
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z109
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Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
I only caught the discussion and not the Primetime investigation, but what struck me was the comment Mr. O'Brien (I think his name was) said, something along the lines of: "It's not about value, it's about affordability". I didn't hear what Mr. Hobbs' response was, I was too busy roaring at the tele. This is the same line that has been pushed on us all over the economy in recent years - "sure no matter that it's expensive, you can afford it".
I only caught the discussion and not the Primetime investigation, but what struck me was the comment Mr. O'Brien (I think his name was) said, something along the lines of: "It's not about value, it's about affordability". I didn't hear what Mr. Hobbs' response was, I was too busy roaring at the tele. This is the same line that has been pushed on us all over the economy in recent years - "sure no matter that it's expensive, you can afford it".
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Let me first state that I have no connection to Cornmarket.
Not unusally when you see an edited clip from what was a longer recording, it is easy to slant the content, miss the context etc. I think that the Cornmarket MD almost made a good point, and its this:
The above is not to say that the AVC route is always best. It depends on the circumstances. Clearly if one can afford to buy out the full short service, then the Notional Service is best value for money and involves less risk. But from a tax effectiveness point, buying out the shortfall in tax free lump sum must be the priority.
Mark Little's grilling style made it difficult to get to an understanding of the position. As often in these hidden camera cases its all about more heat than light. Eddies contribution was worthless. So whilst roasting a Financial Services executive might be great fun (!) I suspect it added little to the sum total of knowledge or understanding of the importance of pension funding. My concern is that it only succeeded in confusing people more. Not a good outcome.
Conan
Let me first state that I have no connection to Cornmarket.
Not unusally when you see an edited clip from what was a longer recording, it is easy to slant the content, miss the context etc. I think that the Cornmarket MD almost made a good point, and its this:
- The Public Service retirement package is made up of two elements: A Pension + A Tax Free Lump Sum
- The max pension is generally around 50% of salary subject to max service
- The max Tax Free Lump Sum is generally around 150% of Salary subject to max service.
- If a Teacher has short service he will get a reduced pension and a reduced tax free lump sum
- If you go the Notional Service route you buy both additional pension and additional tax free lump sum
- If you go the AVC route you might only accumulate a fund sufficient to maximise the tax free lump sum (without buying any additional Pension)
The above is not to say that the AVC route is always best. It depends on the circumstances. Clearly if one can afford to buy out the full short service, then the Notional Service is best value for money and involves less risk. But from a tax effectiveness point, buying out the shortfall in tax free lump sum must be the priority.
Mark Little's grilling style made it difficult to get to an understanding of the position. As often in these hidden camera cases its all about more heat than light. Eddies contribution was worthless. So whilst roasting a Financial Services executive might be great fun (!) I suspect it added little to the sum total of knowledge or understanding of the importance of pension funding. My concern is that it only succeeded in confusing people more. Not a good outcome.
Conan
Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
Exactly, i went to bed last night fuming but in the cold light of day im clueless.
Where do i go for the best advice on such matters???????
For the record, im 32, just over 1yrs service in Ireland, (5 yrs abroad to complicate matters even further) and started paying AVC's last recently?
Should i ring them and postpone any more payments until i can get my head around it or should i just keep going. As it stands im looking like paying the guts of €80K to them over the next 30 years so i'd like to make the best decision possible, then again when i hear the word pension my mind shuts down and i cant get my head around it. I sort of understood it when the cornmarket woman explained it to me but later that same day i tried explainng it to the missus and i couldnt!!!
Exactly, i went to bed last night fuming but in the cold light of day im clueless.
Where do i go for the best advice on such matters???????
For the record, im 32, just over 1yrs service in Ireland, (5 yrs abroad to complicate matters even further) and started paying AVC's last recently?
Should i ring them and postpone any more payments until i can get my head around it or should i just keep going. As it stands im looking like paying the guts of €80K to them over the next 30 years so i'd like to make the best decision possible, then again when i hear the word pension my mind shuts down and i cant get my head around it. I sort of understood it when the cornmarket woman explained it to me but later that same day i tried explainng it to the missus and i couldnt!!!
A
applebuddy
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Re: Prime Time on public service pensions
No one, union member or not, HAS to use a certain broker, it's just that unions can negotiate better deals for their members with certain brokers who administer group schemes, using their numbers to press for better deals. It is in the unions' interests to do the best they can for their members, it is in companies' interests to work hard to deserve these schemes, which are constantly reviewed.
People have been retiring happily for YEARS with both AVCs and NSPs - as Brendan says "there is nothing wrong with AVCs." Last night looked like a witch hunt to me...complete with scary music.
No one, union member or not, HAS to use a certain broker, it's just that unions can negotiate better deals for their members with certain brokers who administer group schemes, using their numbers to press for better deals. It is in the unions' interests to do the best they can for their members, it is in companies' interests to work hard to deserve these schemes, which are constantly reviewed.
People have been retiring happily for YEARS with both AVCs and NSPs - as Brendan says "there is nothing wrong with AVCs." Last night looked like a witch hunt to me...complete with scary music.
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