Gosh - that would affect me too. Very interested in information on this.
Post 1995 Supplementary pension query
- Thread starter stoves1
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That is correct. NSP is added to your service to come up with your occupational pension. The supplementary pension is then the difference between that and pension for a pre-95 with similar service.
That’s how it works in my case.
Remember NSP is for a term, so it is apparently pro-rata if you terminate early. That aspect I still haven’t figured out, as I expect what I built up is what I get. So if I have accrued 5 years of an 8 years NSP and decide to go, I only get the 5 years.
Also if you retire early, the NSP may be actuarily reduced. In my case I am buying some notional servise WRT 60 and another batch WRT 65. If I go before 65 I will he hit twice. The acturial reduction before 65 and you wont have also made all the payments you set out to make.
Also important to note that the core system pension modellers are not correct (in my organisation anyway) if you are purchasing pension WRT 65, and you have not purchased it all yet, or indeed will get an actuarial reduction on it as well. You just need to be careful.
Also important to note that the core system pension modellers are not correct (in my organisation anyway) if you are purchasing pension WRT 65, and you have not purchased it all yet, or indeed will get an actuarial reduction on it as well. You just need to be careful.
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I am still continuing to work on this between , dealing with Garda pensions, Retired members Organisation, Staff Associations, Public representatives etc it is a long road, and am still not getting a positive result. But i am pleased to confirm today that different public sector organisations are actually applying national wage agreement % increases to a post 1995 full pension ie both to the Occupational Pension and the Supplementary Pension, namely the two organisations are the Health and Safety Authority and the HSE but it is still a minefield and my advice to retirees and potential post 1995 retirees is that they address this by any means to ensure they get the % increases on the Supplementary jpart of their pension
CorkHome2022
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Exactly , see the extract from the Superannuation's Handbook , Post 95 are entitled to the same overall pension income as a Pre 95 , the Supplementary Payment is supposed to take care of this but sloppy thinking and phrasing of the scheme in the 1990s has led us to the debacle now in place . A few reports say this will be sorted in a cost neutral way this year as going forward it will use up alot of time to process for payments.
As someone who worked on pensions admin and is now getting a supplementary pension after recently retiring, it's fair to say that there is a lot of confusion around this issue in general across the public service, with differing approaches seemingly taken by individual sectors. In some cases, staff may not even be aware of the potential for a supplementary pension when considering their retirement.
Perhaps the problems that have arisen are understandable, considering that the legislation and related rules were drawn up in the early 1990s by people who wouldn't be affected (paid Class B PRSI) and didn’t anticipate the issues that would arise before the significant increase in Class A PRSI staff wanting to retire in advance of their State retirement age. There is a related lack of training/knowledge amongst pension admin staff across the public sector, especially in smaller organisations.
In relation to Notional Service, DPER confirmed that “service acquired via the purchase of notional service scheme, is not counted when calculating a supplementary pension.” So, for Supplementary Pension purposes only, it would involve re-calculating both the co-ordinated pension and pre 1995 pension equivalent, based on actual service only e.g. 35 years only, rather than 40 years that included 5 years purchased with reference to age 60. If you were to reduce only the co-ordinated pension calculation by 5 years’ service, the combined total of the resulting supplementary pension and actual co-ordination pension in payment (with added years), would exceed that of a pre-1995 pension based on 40 years’ service.
The issue of how co-ordinated Pensions and the ‘gross’ value of Supplementary Pensions (i.e. before the value of any social welfare benefit in payment is deducted) are increased to reflect national pay agreements has not really been clarified. However, when raising this some time ago with the Dept that oversaw superannuation admin in our sector, we were advised not to take into account the increased rate of the ‘State Pension’ at the time of the pay award (rather than that used at retirement) when determining a revised co-ordinated Pension, as this could actually result in a ‘reduction’ rather than an increase (this was especially possible in the years when the ‘State Pension’ increased at a higher percentage rate than public service pensions). At the same time, we couldn’t recalculate using the original ‘State Pension’ rate at retirement as this would result in a percentage increase greater than that awarded in the pay agreement (all of the increase would be at the non-co-ordinated rate i.e. 1/80th per year of service). As a result, it was decided to increase both the co-ordinated and ‘gross’ supplementary pensions by the related percentage increase in the value of Pensionable Remuneration only, in the same way as for pre 1995 pensioners. In effect, a 1.5% increase in both the co-ordinated pension and supplementary pension, would equate to a 1.5% increase in the Pre 1995 pension.
One other issue that many don’t know about, is that a ‘gross’ supplementary pension can be paid in full, even if certain Social Welfare benefits are already in payment (i.e. those benefits that someone who paid Class B or D PRSI can qualify for and receive a pre-1995 pension on retirement). A good example of this is the State Widow(er)’s, Surviving Civil Partner’s Contributory Pension. DPER have confirmed this, and in respect of the Widow(er)’s pension, payment of a supplementary pension can be made both before and after State Retirement age, as someone already receiving a full rate Widow(er)'s Pension cannot receive another contributory benefit (e.g. Job Seekers Benefit or State Pension) ‘'through no fault of their own".
Perhaps the problems that have arisen are understandable, considering that the legislation and related rules were drawn up in the early 1990s by people who wouldn't be affected (paid Class B PRSI) and didn’t anticipate the issues that would arise before the significant increase in Class A PRSI staff wanting to retire in advance of their State retirement age. There is a related lack of training/knowledge amongst pension admin staff across the public sector, especially in smaller organisations.
In relation to Notional Service, DPER confirmed that “service acquired via the purchase of notional service scheme, is not counted when calculating a supplementary pension.” So, for Supplementary Pension purposes only, it would involve re-calculating both the co-ordinated pension and pre 1995 pension equivalent, based on actual service only e.g. 35 years only, rather than 40 years that included 5 years purchased with reference to age 60. If you were to reduce only the co-ordinated pension calculation by 5 years’ service, the combined total of the resulting supplementary pension and actual co-ordination pension in payment (with added years), would exceed that of a pre-1995 pension based on 40 years’ service.
The issue of how co-ordinated Pensions and the ‘gross’ value of Supplementary Pensions (i.e. before the value of any social welfare benefit in payment is deducted) are increased to reflect national pay agreements has not really been clarified. However, when raising this some time ago with the Dept that oversaw superannuation admin in our sector, we were advised not to take into account the increased rate of the ‘State Pension’ at the time of the pay award (rather than that used at retirement) when determining a revised co-ordinated Pension, as this could actually result in a ‘reduction’ rather than an increase (this was especially possible in the years when the ‘State Pension’ increased at a higher percentage rate than public service pensions). At the same time, we couldn’t recalculate using the original ‘State Pension’ rate at retirement as this would result in a percentage increase greater than that awarded in the pay agreement (all of the increase would be at the non-co-ordinated rate i.e. 1/80th per year of service). As a result, it was decided to increase both the co-ordinated and ‘gross’ supplementary pensions by the related percentage increase in the value of Pensionable Remuneration only, in the same way as for pre 1995 pensioners. In effect, a 1.5% increase in both the co-ordinated pension and supplementary pension, would equate to a 1.5% increase in the Pre 1995 pension.
One other issue that many don’t know about, is that a ‘gross’ supplementary pension can be paid in full, even if certain Social Welfare benefits are already in payment (i.e. those benefits that someone who paid Class B or D PRSI can qualify for and receive a pre-1995 pension on retirement). A good example of this is the State Widow(er)’s, Surviving Civil Partner’s Contributory Pension. DPER have confirmed this, and in respect of the Widow(er)’s pension, payment of a supplementary pension can be made both before and after State Retirement age, as someone already receiving a full rate Widow(er)'s Pension cannot receive another contributory benefit (e.g. Job Seekers Benefit or State Pension) ‘'through no fault of their own".
Allpartied
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Apparently, the legislation to introduce pay related jobseekers benefit, is about to be enacted this week.
Does this mean that those taking retirement, from public sector jobs, who have to apply for jobseekers, for 9 months, prior to applying for the supplementary pension, will be entitled to this enhanced payment?
By my calculations, those who qualify for the top rate of payment, will be getting around 13800 Euros for the 9 month period.
Under the old system, it would be about 8700 Euros. So, it is a substantial increase and, in many cases, will be well in excess of the supplementary pension these retirees would receive.
Does this mean that those taking retirement, from public sector jobs, who have to apply for jobseekers, for 9 months, prior to applying for the supplementary pension, will be entitled to this enhanced payment?
By my calculations, those who qualify for the top rate of payment, will be getting around 13800 Euros for the 9 month period.
Under the old system, it would be about 8700 Euros. So, it is a substantial increase and, in many cases, will be well in excess of the supplementary pension these retirees would receive.
CorkHome2022
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As regards the enhanced payment NO , the post95 pension limits your pay from the state in any form to your 50% pension entitlements , it would be an interesting case to take on discrimination grounds but I suspect that once DPER make the process more streamlined ie a single payment the "right" to enhanced UB payments would go as one would be retired not unemployed .
Gardaí retiring from November will have to make ‘false declaration’ t…
archived 23 May 2024 07:04:38 UTC
Gprwicklow
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H
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It will be interesting to see if they solve the signing for JB issue in the upcoming budget / finance act.
Anyone spotted any sign tha this might be the case. The TUI were sure it was been sorted a few months ago. I would expect the finance act . budget might be a good opportunity to sort it.
Anyone spotted any sign tha this might be the case. The TUI were sure it was been sorted a few months ago. I would expect the finance act . budget might be a good opportunity to sort it.
New Circular on Arrangements for Supplementary pensions post 1995 published 26/7/2024
I started this thread and wish to provide an update -
link to new circular below:
I recieved a copy of a new circular for new rules that civil servants post 1995 and retire from public service which has recognised a few issues when i started this thread namely,
No increase in supplementary pension amount from date of retirement - Supplementary to now recieve % national wage rises,
No need to apply for jobseekers after retiring can request your Supplementary from 1st day of retirement
There are other issues within the document as well which i would appreciate people would discuss.
My own story is i am a post 1995 garda retiree retired over 2yrs ( mandatory at 60)
Myself and one other post 1995 Garda retiree were the main instigators for this new circular and I would like to Thank the contributors to this forum for their insight and advice
I started this thread and wish to provide an update -
link to new circular below:
I recieved a copy of a new circular for new rules that civil servants post 1995 and retire from public service which has recognised a few issues when i started this thread namely,
No increase in supplementary pension amount from date of retirement - Supplementary to now recieve % national wage rises,
No need to apply for jobseekers after retiring can request your Supplementary from 1st day of retirement
There are other issues within the document as well which i would appreciate people would discuss.
My own story is i am a post 1995 garda retiree retired over 2yrs ( mandatory at 60)
Myself and one other post 1995 Garda retiree were the main instigators for this new circular and I would like to Thank the contributors to this forum for their insight and advice
blanketyblank
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I am post 1995 and intend retiring soon - does this mean I will no longer have to apply for unemployment benefit??
If the circular was published in July when does it actually come into law? Or is it law now?
If the circular was published in July when does it actually come into law? Or is it law now?
Congratulations @stoves1. No doubt you've put in some hard yards on this, especially considering you were in a very small minority, albeit one that will be changing rapidly enough by this time next year. You've done a service for many no doubt.
I must say I thought of you when I opened an email on the subject from GSRMA this morning.
I must say I thought of you when I opened an email on the subject from GSRMA this morning.
There now appears to be the option to go down the jobseekers benefit route OR straight to the Supplementary pension. Section 13 parts (vi and vii) do caution that this may cut off the possibility of securing credits(stamps) for the state contributory pension which is available after completing the 39 weeks on jobseekers benefit.
It's not necessary to complete any Jobseekers benefit claim before claiming credits.
A person can sign on for credits immediately after retirement.
I think that those sections are just stating that the person would need to agree to the DSP terms for signing on for credits.
@stoves1 well done. A great result. It makes life less complicated if we don’t have to go through the 9 months of JB.
One point about signing for credits I don’t understand.
I will be getting a supplementary pension and also my actual pension. Surely I am paying A stamps on this payment and this negates the need to sign for credits for the same period
I am reading the document on my phone and it’s not designed for the smaller screen and alas I need new glasses
I’ll have a propper look tomorrow.
Again a fantastic result.
One point about signing for credits I don’t understand.
I will be getting a supplementary pension and also my actual pension. Surely I am paying A stamps on this payment and this negates the need to sign for credits for the same period
I am reading the document on my phone and it’s not designed for the smaller screen and alas I need new glasses
I’ll have a propper look tomorrow.
Again a fantastic result.