Pope John Paul to be Beatified

I can answer my own question.

There are about 4,500 priests in the ROI.

There are about 4,500,000 people in the ROI.

That's 0.1% of the population.

Therefore priests are 50 times more likely to be convicted for paedophilia...

Apart from the fact that i'm not totally sure about your 5% figure, when you go on to ascertain that priests are 50 times more likely to be convicted you are actually including the liklihood that children will commit the crime which is doubtful, so a more accurate figure would be a percentage of adult males because thats the category they fit in to.
 
The one thing that would shatter my remaining regard for any good the catholic church has done is to associate the late John Paul II with paedophilia.
To me it seemed that he was unable to approach this problem.

Personally I have a great regard for the man, someone who epitomises the Christian ideal in many ways, but someone for whom hurting children was such a foreign notion that he could not even approach the concept, never mind deal with it effectively.

It is his utter lack of malignity [he forgave his would-be assassin], his inability to understand the extent of venial sin in others that may have blinded him to the practice of paedophilia in his Church, whilst the classification of the problem as a "moral lapse" or "disease" allowed a lenient attitude to be taken within that body.

In terms of the law, the glory days of the Holy Roman Empire are long gone, and even at its height, as has been noted, "it was neither particularly Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire".

Not all paedophiles appear to engage in the sexual act - as we might infer from meeja reports, many seem to be lonely, possible sexually dysfunctional wannabbees who cannot have sexual relations, who simply collect pictures.

So long as they stay under the radar, most of these kind of pedos will remain undetected.

For a more representative picture of the problem I respectfully suggest anybody interested should read the SAVI Report.

http://www.oneinfour.org/uploads/savi.pdf

Most importantly, my understanding of the problem is that it is not confined to or centred on the priesthood.

The meeja, in focussing on what sells papers - abuse by and within the priesthood- have tended to ignore the more widespread sexual abuse that is associated with other professions or classes of carers or people with authority or governance over children.

In this they have done both the Church and electorate a disservice no less disgraceful than their supposed coverage of that banking crisis.

Irish swimming had several instances at the top level of the sport.

[broken link removed]
[broken link removed]

The Gardaí are affected; -

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/excrimeline-garda-guilty--on-sex-charge-364560.html

Finally, the hardest thing for most people to accept is paedophile abuse in families, whether from family members - siblings or parents - or close relatives - uncles/aunts - or "friends" of families.

I'm not saying all this to defend or excuse the Catholic Church in Ireland, its adherents or supporters who engaged in child sexual abuse.
But when one poster says "what culture of paedophilia?" you have to wonder with all these reports and meeja revelation how they cannot see the situation.

ONQ.
 
Before I give my opinion I'd like to point out that, whilst nominally Catholic (my parents 'dipped' me) I'm no great believer in any 'God' whatsoever. It's all a load of tripe as far as I'm concerned.

I think, however, that to just write-off JPII as the manager of a corrupt and diseased business and therefore worthy of no recognition (sainthood, nobel prize, blah, blah, blah) is wrong. This guy is/was very largely responsible for the collapse of communism in Europe through his shuttle diplomacy in the '80s. That in itself would qualify him for a few accolades. Extrapolating that a bit I wouldn't be married to my wife or have my kids if it weren't for him! Yer! I know I'm stretching it here!!!

The other thing that has to be borne in mind when you go off on an anti-catholic rant ( remember I DON'T wear the tee-shirt) is that catholicism, christianity in general infact, is one of those daft code of beliefs where if a fella says he's sorry and he won't do it again then you have to forgive him and he becomes 'rehabilitated'.

I think that had more to do with the catholic church's reaction to child abuse in Ireland than anything else. Even where they knew it was going on they chose to take that route.

The abuse suffered was not only sexual. I personally had a head master, a Christian Brother, who used to hook us up on the cloakroom hooks, one of those portable ones with wheels, and leave us dangle by our ties for a minute or two whilst we choked if we didn't know our times tables. An abusive a****** who I hope meets a very sticky end if it already hasn't happened. On the other hand the brother from Cork who used to teach us hurling was one of the greatest guys ever. When we all had chicken-pox in the Gaeltact that lad used to come around and paint us all with Calamine lotion 3 times a day. He was a DIAMOND person. I'd love to name him but that would identify the other idiot too and Brendan would be down on me!

You can't write-off the whole organisation because of a few bad apples.

Let JP have his sainthood and if there is a God then let him bless him.


-----------------------------------

Ancutza,

I too experienced Christian brothers with violent tempers, one of whom nearly brained me with a duster.
Then the brother tried raising me to the rafters by my sideburns [such as they were] when I told him his behaviour was inappropriate.

As to your own experience; -

Is the idea of a person outside the family painting a young boy with calamine lotion just a little unusual?
Having had the chickenpox I know that the itchy little boils aren't choosy where they manifest themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickenpox

Calomine lotion application is therefore an all over body experience.
I'm sorry if this ruins your memory, or causes you serious concern but read this again from an outsider's point of view.

"When we all had chicken-pox in the Gaeltact that lad used to come around and paint us all with Calamine lotion 3 times a day."

ONQ.
 
Apart from the fact that i'm not totally sure about your 5% figure, when you go on to ascertain that priests are 50 times more likely to be convicted you are actually including the liklihood that children will commit the crime which is doubtful, so a more accurate figure would be a percentage of adult males because thats the category they fit in to.

How exactly will a child commit this crime?

Are you classing under eighteens as children?

ONQ.
 
The culture of paedophilia that is in the Catholic Church - its been going on for decades - perhaps centuries.

Paedophilia in and of itself it is not a culture any more than the wider culture is a heterosexual one.

The culture I think you are referring to is the culture of facilitating, apologising for and covering up acts of paedophilia.

Its not confined to the Catholic church, unfortunately.

Did you never wonder what happened to all the Ferns cases?

To the best of my knowledge they were sent to the Gardaí, who sat on them.

ONQ.
 
"When we all had chicken-pox in the Gaeltact that lad used to come around and paint us all with Calamine lotion 3 times a day."

I take your point. In this instance however it's a first hand account which I've qualified. It's a fact that there was absolutely no impropriety on that mans behalf towards any of us. He was a good person who was looking after the kids entrusted to him and I think that one of the saddest outcomes of the whole abuse scandal is that questions now be raised about good folk like him in the priesthood. Guys like him don't deserve anything but respect.

I was old enough at the time to recognise the difference between that individuals kindness and the savagery of the other cretin.
 
You can't write-off the whole organisation because of a few bad apples.

Let JP have his sainthood and if there is a God then let him bless him.

i agree, if the want to make him a saint let them do so....where's the problem!
 
I take your point. In this instance however it's a first hand account which I've qualified. It's a fact that there was absolutely no impropriety on that mans behalf towards any of us. He was a good person who was looking after the kids entrusted to him and I think that one of the saddest outcomes of the whole abuse scandal is that questions now be raised about good folk like him in the priesthood. Guys like him don't deserve anything but respect.

I was old enough at the time to recognise the difference between that individuals kindness and the savagery of the other cretin.

I accept that entirely - in fact I was embarrassed to raise it but given the thread that was in it I felt it appropriate just so you could rebut it.

For my part I have met many male doctors over the years from childhood to more recently, whether through sickness or accidents and none of them gave any cause for concern.
The trouble is that once "carers" get outed as being target professions for paedophiles, the issue gets legs and people extrapolate all sorts of things unfairly.
Its part of the tragedy of all of this that the perpetrators don't understand the damage they do to the kids and are the ones leading the search when somone's son of daughter "runs away from home".

Sort of raises the spectre of why adolescent kids leave home with no momey or forwarding address doesn't it?
I doubt that the findings of the SAVI report and the large numbers of young people eleeping rough and mere co-incidence.
Having said that, I accept that some of that may be down to physical violence, natural dissonance in the home or the pressures of peer groups and schooling.

ONQ.
 
How exactly will a child commit this crime?

Are you classing under eighteens as children?

ONQ.

My point was that they can't, which was the hole in the other posters argument i.e they calculated a percentage out of the full population of Ireland which includes children.
 
I guess you could call this a smoking gun:

[broken link removed]

So there's the soon to be fast tracked saint writing to say do not report any of this.
 
JP11 beatification

John Paul II was to me not responsible for the end of Communism though he did help in Poland. The Soviet defeat in Afghanistan and the collapse of the Soviet economy was more responsible.

Also he supported Opus Dei, a right-wing, manipulative organisation.

He supported Legionaries of Christ, run by a paedophile, and an even nastier organisation than the former.

He believed in covering up the paedophilia issue, moving priests to prevent scandal etc etc.

He did nothing to support the poor and downtrodden in Latin America. I wouldn't be a Liberation theologist but he was happy enough with Non-Communist dictators it would seem.

He espoused "the poor you shall always have with you" and social conservatism.

He and the Catholic church interfered in civil matters here. I try to explain the treatment of USI in the late 80s for having the temerity to install condom machines to people in their twenties and they can't believe it.

He rowed back on the second Vatican Council etc etc.

His Sainthood is a rather bizarre step.

Regds,
Gearoid
 
John Paul II was to me not responsible for the end of Communism though he did help in Poland. The Soviet defeat in Afghanistan and the collapse of the Soviet economy was more responsible.

Also he supported Opus Dei, a right-wing, manipulative organisation.

He supported Legionaries of Christ, run by a paedophile, and an even nastier organisation than the former.

He believed in covering up the paedophilia issue, moving priests to prevent scandal etc etc.

He did nothing to support the poor and downtrodden in Latin America. I wouldn't be a Liberation theologist but he was happy enough with Non-Communist dictators it would seem.


He espoused "the poor you shall always have with you" and social conservatism.

He and the Catholic church interfered in civil matters here. I try to explain the treatment of USI in the late 80s for having the temerity to install condom machines to people in their twenties and they can't believe it.

He rowed back on the second Vatican Council etc etc.

His Sainthood is a rather bizarre step.

Regds,
Gearoid

Agree with you 100%, particularly regarding the Legionaries of Christ. The founder, who was lated exposed as a paedophile and having a couple of children and numerous girlfriends was very, very generous to the Vatican. That is considered the reason no action was taken against him by John Paul 11. Complaints had been made for decades about this man but, it is alleged, because of the millions he donated nothing was done. John Paul 2 should not be made a saint!
 
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