Politicisation of the office of President.

[Salvadore]

the protocol is that every President gets their speeches cleared by the government.

I recall that a few years ago, there was an advertisement for a press officer in the Aras. One of the requirements which I found astonishing at the time was for the successful candidate to have a political outlook similar to that of the President (not the exact words, but that was the gist).

So in other words, he didn’t want a press officer who might challenge him on the appropriateness of what it was he wanted to say.

 

[deanpark]

He’s not a politician. He’s the President. He’s meant to be above politics. He is meant to get his speeches cleared by the Government. He’s meant to be above his personal biases but he’s so arrogant and egotistical that he thinks his opinions are more important than the constitutional obligations of his office.

Well you've got a few more years of this to suffer through. Plenty of time to prepare your (right wing?) campaign to replace MDH !! LOL

 

[Baby boomer]

No, he'sa former politician. Now he's the President.

He's both the President and a politician.

He is meant to represent all of the people of Ireland. He's required to carry out his function "only on the advice of the government, save where it is provided by this Constitution that he shall act in his absolute discretion or after consultation with or in relation to the Council of State, or on the advice or nomination of, or on receipt of any other communication from, any other person or body. In other words he shouldn't be making political statements without clearing it with the Government.

Now, now, Purple! That's a bit naughty of you. Not alone have you omitted the important and relevant words that precede your selective quote from the Constitution, you also woefully misinterpret it. The bit you quote ONLY applies in the context of the words that precede it, namely: "The powers and functions conferred on the President by this Constitution shall be exercisable and performable by him..."
So when he's exercising his constitutional Presidential powers, he does so only on the advice of the Government etc, etc. For example, when he's accepting the credentials of a foreign ambassador, that's a power conferred on him by law in accordance with the Constitution, and he exercises that power on the advice of the government. But when he's exercising ordinary citizen like powers, such as deciding what to have for the Presidential breakfast, or addressing a Siptu conference, he is under no such constraint.

Furthermore, the President is given two very political functions which he exercises at his absolute discretion. One is the power to refuse a dissolution, and a general election, to a Taoiseach who has lost the confidence of the Dáil. That is the very essence of a highly political decision, and it is utter nonsense to suggest that it should (or even could) be exercised in a non-political manner. Thus the Constitution itself has baked in a political role for the President. The idea that it's "above politics" is specious nonsense that's been given legs by lazy journalists wanting a controversy, and perhaps encouraged by lazy past Presidents more interested in their golf handicap than playing an active political role.

I didn't say it was. the protocol is that every President gets their speeches cleared by the government.

See above. Only required when it's an address to the Nation or to the Oireachtas as specifically set out in the Constitution. "Protocol" is nothing more than habit. Either getting clearance in all circumstances is a constitutional requirement or it isn't. And it isn't. It may be done (and often is) as a courtesy, but there's no requirement to do so.

Yes, judges, sports referees and, usually, the President of this country.

Yeah, to a point, I'll concede that to you.

 

[odyssey06]

Well you've got a few more years of this to suffer through. Plenty of time to prepare your (right wing?) campaign to replace MDH !! LOL

We should go back to the days where it went to the guy ( now person) with the lowest golf handicap. They have to spend so much at golf no time for other mischief.

 

[Purple]

the President is given two very political functions which he exercises at his absolute discretion. One is the power to refuse a dissolution, and a general election, to a Taoiseach who has lost the confidence of the Dáil. That is the very essence of a highly political decision, and it is utter nonsense to suggest that it should (or even could) be exercised in a non-political manner. Thus the Constitution itself has baked in a political role for the President.

The Constitution specifies two political functions for the President, but only in those the specific circumstances.

The idea that it's "above politics" is specious nonsense that's been given legs by lazy journalists wanting a controversy, and perhaps encouraged by lazy past Presidents more interested in their golf handicap than playing an active political role.

No, that's specious nonsense. The President cannot have an overtly political role as it will put him at odds with the Government. The people through their Parliament are sovereign. The President cannot adopt a role that undermines that. Every other president since the foundation of the State understood that and acted accordingly. Mickie D understands it too but he doesn't care because he thinks he's more important than his office.

ee above. Only required when it's an address to the Nation or to the Oireachtas as specifically set out in the Constitution. "Protocol" is nothing more than habit. Either getting clearance in all circumstances is a constitutional requirement or it isn't. And it isn't. It may be done (and often is) as a courtesy, but there's no requirement to do so.

See above.

 

[Baby boomer]

The Constitution specifies two political functions for the President, but only in those the specific circumstances.

Ok, progress of sorts. You accept the Presidency has at least two political functions. It can't, therefore, be "above politics" as is so often lazily claimed.

No, that's specious nonsense. The President cannot have an overtly political role as it will put him at odds with the Government.

But wait. What about that political power to refuse a Taoiseach a dissolution? That would surely put him "at odds with the Government" yet that is precisely the power that the Constitution confers on him.

The people through their Parliament are sovereign.

Careful now. The people's sovereignty is not exclusively given effect through Parliament (more correctly, the Oireachtas) but also through the other organs of State such as the Presidency, the Cabinet and the Supreme Court. It's called Separation of Powers. As we can readily see from the UK, the doctrine of Parliamentary Supremacy is far from a good thing.

The President cannot adopt a role that undermines that.

Well, he can actually. Sometimes it is his duty to do so.

Every other president since the foundation of the State understood that and acted accordingly.

Mary Robinson often clashed with Government. Anyway, just because most past Presidents holed up in the Areas, and didn't do controversial stuff, doesn't compel their successors to do likewise.

Mickie D understands it too but he doesn't care because he thinks he's more important than his office.

Well, yes, can't disagree with that!!

 

[Purple]

Ok, progress of sorts. You accept the Presidency has at least two political functions. It can't, therefore, be "above politics" as is so often lazily claimed.

I never claimed the President didn't have constitutional functions that have an impact on politics but that's not the same as being political. i.e. taking a position on political matters which are the bread and butter of our Parliament.

But wait. What about that political power to refuse a Taoiseach a dissolution? That would surely put him "at odds with the Government" yet that is precisely the power that the Constitution confers on him.

No, it doesn't. He has specific powers in relation when he can and can't dissolve the Dáil.
It would be nearly as unacceptable for a Supreme Court Judge to express political views which tainted their role as a guardian of the Constitution.

Careful now. The people's sovereignty is not exclusively given effect through Parliament (more correctly, the Oireachtas) but also through the other organs of State such as the Presidency, the Cabinet and the Supreme Court. It's called Separation of Powers. As we can readily see from the UK, the doctrine of Parliamentary Supremacy is far from a good thing.

So you accept the separation of powers. That's progress. It's more than Mickey D accepts.

Well, he can actually. Sometimes it is his duty to do so.

No, he can't. He can refuse to sign legislation that he thinks is unconstitutional and he has specific powers in relation to ending a term of Parliament. That's it.

Mary Robinson often clashed with Government.

Yes, and she was wrong to do so.

Anyway, just because most past Presidents holed up in the Areas, and didn't do controversial stuff, doesn't compel their successors to do likewise.

I agree completely. They should respect their office and stay our of politics though.

Well, yes, can't disagree with that!!

Good.