My apologies in advance to the mods who may consider this a rant and wish to move or delete it but I think pjordan has made some outrageous comments which deserve a response.
Thank y'all for your replies, some of which I have already addressed in boards.ie but I equally appreciate many of the points made here however as in my other reply I would also question the stance of some of the posters, whose replies smack of a degree of smugness and superiority of their opinion of their profession that probably serves to put off rather than endear or earn the trust of potential clients.
I think we're getting down to bedrock now, having seen your min-rant against the professionals over on boards.ie
Did you come here to actually seek advice or just to diss a firm who gave you a reasonable quotation on fees?
Whilst it may work to bombard some innocents with technical jargon and lists that are meant more than anything else to project your alleged scale of command of your profession and to make your client feel like a total helpless illiterate fool, it takes considerably more than that to justify to me that someone's professional input is worth a fee of €1200 plus VAT.
Translation:
"I don't understand what it is you do for the money so I'm not going to pay."
As I've said elsewhere, I have actually since gone and discussed the quote in detail with my friend and the discussion has shed considerably more light on it as well as a very frank and genuine suggestion from him that I should indeed shop around.
Translation:
"I've wasted someone else's time in the real world and he politely indicated he wasn't dropping his fees and wasn't chasing the work."
But to specifically address some of the issues raised:
I suppose, as some of the other posters, have rightly pointed out, and perhaps as my posting here may reflect, it does come down to the perceived value I put on the professional services of the architectural profession. Unfortunately the experience of witnessing some of the developments that have gone on in Mayo during the boom times, as elsewhere in the country, have done little to cover the profession in glory or integrity with little in evidence of any form of architectual merit so that on that basis, it becomes something of a vicious circle, when it comes to myself making an application for for a purely functional building, having seen what the profession has produced in the way of residental and commercial buildings both urban and rural in this county, I'm compelled to think, sure if I can get away with pure functionality like the majority, why do I need to worry about character or architectural merit at all. I just want the basics of what I need to get planning permission, whatever that lowest common denominator is this week or month.
Translation:
"I have no clue who produced the rubbish that surrounds me in Mayo but I'm going to blame the Architects because they're to blame for everything anyway, right?"
Some of the derivitive [as opposed to traditional] designs built in the Irish countryside over the past four decades have suffered by NOT being designed by architects.
It seemed that every guy who could draw the occassional straight line put up a plate and named himself an architect and raided the bungalow bliss catalogue.
Nods and winks from councillors towards Planner Officers dominated by engineers employed as County Managers meant design standards were not applied.
All they had to was make their drawing look marginally better than the self-build on the next site and they got permission.
Where the Planning Officers were allowed do their jobs they betrayed a design ethos more suited to supporting the Tourist Industry than setting standards for good traditional or modern design in Ireland.
We ended up with thatch-and/or-slate roof tigheens strealed along main roads in ribbon development instead of community- based clusters with defined edges fostering a sense of community.
Do some checking - you're surrounded by houses which were "designed" by unqualified people, draughtsmen or self-builders, not architects.
Even where an architect was occassionally involved, the design was usually strangulated by planning restrictions on form and materials.
In such a scenario, architects who wanted to design quality buildings went into the Commercial or Public Sectors, abandoning housing.
Nowadays standards of design are rising all the time and partly due to this and the requirements of the Building Control Act 2007, people who falsely say they are architects can be prosecuted.
Of course, any potential client only had to ask where the diploma or degree Certificate was in the office to satisfy themselves that person they were dealign with was a qualified professional.
However many clients in the eighties and nineties in rural areas were like what you appear to be: chasing a price, not looking for quality design - they never even raised the question.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - you get what you pay for.
You're surrounded by what they paid for.
I'm also somewhat reminded in this thread of the relationships between nurses and doctors or consultants in hospitals, whereby it would seem proven that nurses do much of the base diagnosis and treatment of patients in most of our hospital wards and the consultants or doctors often only involve themselves to justify their consultancy fees or cover their arses and in doing so also mainting their air or superiority both over their patients and the suborbinate nursing staff.
Translation:
"I have no clue about the medical profession either, and I might as well rant about them here even though its patently off-topic"
Unfortuantely a good deal of what I see in this thread would seem to indicate that some in the architectural profession breathe the same rarefied air.
If you want my business can I suggest talking to me rather than down to me and my likes. If you earn my respect I'll gladly pay you for it.
Translation:
"I have a massive inferiority complex about anyone in the professions and I'm tight when it comes to paying fees."
Well, I'm glad you finally got all that off your chest, because it certainly fills out the first impression you made.
At least now any sole trader who accepts your commission will have a fair idea what they're getting into.
They should formally agree the fee, brief and information package and get you to sign off on them all.
That will confirm what you're getting for your money and may prevent them from getting burned.
HAND
ONQ.
