Piercing babies ears

ClubMan said:
Are you honestly saying that you have never heard anybody speaking out against this female or male circumcision? In particular perpetrated against those who cannot make an informed choice (babies or other minors)? :confused:
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Yes I am being completely honest and always have been. I was actually referring to male circumcision as I think female circumcision is already outlawed here. Hence no reason to questions peoples perceptions about it.

The only times I have really heard about male circumcision are in American TV shows where the Jewish character for example brings it up for plot related reasons. Yet I have seen noone speak out against it and it appears to be legal everywhere despite a case I read about a few years ago where a baby have lost his genitals by accident. (apparently a hot knife of too high a temperature was used and it vaporised the penis). Has anyone with a high profile spoken out against male circumcision Clubman ? I am not aware of it if someone has.
 
stir crazy said:
Yes I am being completely honest and always have been.
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Fair enough. I'm just surprised that you have not heard many people over the years discussing this issue.
I was actually referring to male circumcision as I think female circumcision is already outlawed here. Hence no reason to questions peoples perceptions about it.
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I would be wrong but have there not been cases of medical professionals colluding to facilitate female circumcision in Ireland?
The only times I have really heard about male circumcision are in American TV shows where the Jewish character for example brings it up for plot related reasons. Yet I have seen noone speak out against it
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I have heard people speaking out against it here in Ireland. Of course and adult choosing to have it done is one thing and their own prerogative but it being forced on a minor with no say in the matter is another thing and I would agree with your earlier analysis on that point.
and it appears to be legal everywhere despite a case I read about a few years ago where a baby have lost his genitals by accident.
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Wasn't there also at least one relatively recent case of a baby losing his life through a botched circumcision here in Ireland?
Has anyone with a high profile spoken out against male circumcision Clubman ? I am not aware of it if someone has.
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?
 
back to topic
bizarrely in 1984 i got my ears done for confirmation doves...
but the accepted practice was no way before! now wear discreet studs.

don't think can be compared with tattoos (aka tramp stamps). ugh!
 
apparently in Spain they routinely do it to babies in the hospital, how anyone can do that to a baby is wierd.
 
ClubMan said:
Are you honestly saying that you have never heard anybody speaking out against this female or male circumcision? In particular perpetrated against those who cannot make an informed choice (babies or other minors)? :confused:
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Ya - I have never ever heard someone mention it - as in pretty much ever - other than referenced on some american tv show.

Has anyone else heard their friends/relatives disciuss it as a genuine conversational topic?

I doubt it very much - unless me,my friends and many colleagues i've worked with over the years all live under a rock !
 
amtc said:
back to topic
bizarrely in 1984 i got my ears done for confirmation doves...
but the accepted practice was no way before! now wear discreet studs.

don't think can be compared with tattoos (aka tramp stamps). ugh!
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The issue it babies with pierced ears. It looks fine on adults.
 
I don't like the look of it and I am against it, but why the snobbery, is it only 'knackers' that do it or should the middle class and up provide parenting advice to the 'scangers' so that they can meet todays standards.
 
I've never had mine done and don't intend to now. My parents were fairly strict and wouldn't have let us do this as young girls. The mantra in our house was that we would be old enough to decide for ourselves when we went to college ( not when we were over 18, or 16 or whatever- ' when you are in college' was the repeated answer to most requests in our house which was pretty clever of them really- making being in college the ultimate goal). My sister got her ears pierced then. I never bothered. I have two daughters and I would love to follow my parents footsteps and tell them they will be old enough to make decisions when they are in college but kids seem to be more mature than we were nowadays so I guess I'll see how mature mine are at 16 ( definitely not below that). I could never do this to a baby- the usual vaccinations are bad enough- imagine doing something to a baby to cause it pain when it's not necessary! I saw a little boy in a supermarket the other day the same age as my youngest daughter and he was a lovely little fellow, well dressed and well mannered and had a substantial gold hoop in one ear. Personally I thought it looked horrible but the look is subjective. The pain that must have been inflicted can be fairly objectively assessed though I would have thought.
 
In Spain, it is standard practice for little girls to get their ears pierced at a very young age.
 
We can all make points about perceived class/taste etc but I think the main issue is that something unnecessary and painful is being inflicted on someone unable to yet make the choice for themselves. I would take this attitude regardless of what is the cultural or national norm.
 
circumcision, ear-piercing babies - its all mutilation of a helpless child and should be a crime.
If someone stuck a sharp implement into a babies ear lobe, or anywhere else, the perpertrator would be arrested for assault. Having parental permission to stab the ear-lobe should be no excuse.
 
ClubMan said:
I would be wrong but have there not been cases of medical professionals colluding to facilitate female circumcision in Ireland?
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I wasnt aware of this . have those medical professionals been struck off ? :confused:

ClubMan said:
I have heard people speaking out against it here in Ireland. Of course and adult choosing to have it done is one thing and their own prerogative but it being forced on a minor with no say in the matter is another thing and I would agree with your earlier analysis on that point.
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I have never seen any high profile politician or celebrity anywhere speak out against circumcision. I suspect if speaking out about ear piercing he or she would be seen as a crank with nothing better to do even though the argument against any procedure done to a child who cannot choose for itself is totally valid .


Has anyone ever died or been seriously damaged from the procedure ? (apart from the airhole in ones ear ;) )

Would anyone who got it done as a child actually regret getting it done?

Since 99% of females that I have met have it done, is it just avoiding fate not to get it done at a young age ? (yes I paid attention to the argument about inability to choose but am just asking)

Is it easier to get your ears pierced while young ? And for any adults who got it done , how painful was it ? Would you reverse it if you could ?
 
I think it's cruel and should not be done to defenceless children. The trauma of it.

I also would be against circumcission as it is traumatic, cruel and painful. The reasons for the need for circumcission in the past was down to poor hygene in third/second world countries but since the advent of running water/showers e.t.c. there is no need for it.
 
stir crazy said:
Would anyone who got it done as a child actually regret getting it done? Since 99% of females that I have met have it done, is it just avoiding fate not to get it done at a young age ? *snip* Would you reverse it if you could ?
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Had it done as a child (I suppose age 5 or 6). I don't like earrings however, so now I have half-closed-up holes in my ears but still visible red marks. I wish I hadn't had it done.
 
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it was done to me well before communion age, dont remember the piercing as such but i do remember not being able to sleep comfortably because of the backs of the gold studs digging into my head at night.

have NEVER worn earrings since. the holes in my ears are almost invisible but would rather not have them.

i dont think body modification should be allowed on anyone before the age of consent.
 
In Spain, I have never seen a baby girl without pierced ears. Here it has none of the negative (skanger) connotations which it has in Ireland. Babies get their ears pierced in hospital just after they are born.

I've asked a few spanish people whether they think it's cruel to cause your 2 days old baby pain, but they look at me like I have 10 heads.

I was showing some spanish people photos of my baby niece (she's feminine looking and was all dressed in pink), but everyone asked was it a boy or a girl. When I said a girl, everyones first comment was 'where are her earrings?'! :)
 
Different country, different standards. Do they still think Bull fighting is also not cruel ?
 
Just because something is culturally acceptable does not mean that it is right. But it is very difficult to change cultural traditions on grounds like cruelty because they are deeply indoctrinated and people of a particular culture will be largely desensitised to whatever the practice in question is.

Piercing is a permanent way of marking the body. There are many ways of permanently marking the body in a variety of different cultures across the world. Body scarification, tattooing, lip plates, stretched earlobes, male and female circumcision, etc... - Is it MORALLY right to perpetrate any of these things on a child - despite the fact that all are culturally acceptable somewhere in the world?
 
truthseeker said:
Just because something is culturally acceptable does not mean that it is right. quote]


Just to clarify - I dont agree with piercing babys ears, and never would. (My last post sounds like I'm defending Spain's custom of doing it).

I was 16 when I was allowed get it done, and it was really sore (they had to punch one ear three times to get the pin through - it swelled up like a boxer's ear) ; I'd never inflict that on a baby.
And its hard to sleep with earrings in, since they dig into your head - that couldn't be comfortable for a baby either.
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