Phonewatch - alarm - burglary

[Dublinio]

House broken into. Car keys and car taken. Alarm failed to activate. Burglars would’ve passed by 2 different sensor/cameras to get the keys. Nothing.

Log shows me arming that night and disarming next morning, as per usual. Same sensor that failed to detect them, detected me when I exited the bedroom next morning. It’s like they were ghosts. Phonewatch can’t explain it. They sent a technician twice. All they say, on repeat, is that the ‘alarm was operational before and after the event’. But no actual explanation.

They have offered to upgrade the system going forward but nothing about compensating for what has passed. Really disappointed in their stonewalling response. 10 year customer. Anyone experience this? Advise on proceeding greatly received.

Thank you.

 

[TomEdison]

Is your home insurance not going to compensate you for the theft?

I think your primary worry here is not getting compensated; it's understanding what happened so that you can take effective steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again. The offer of an upgrade from phonewatch is not reassuring; if they don't know what flaw in the system was exploited this time around, how can they be confident that the upgraded system won't have a similar flaw?

Plus, seeking compensation from Phonewatch (or any other home security/alarm service) will be a massive fight that will require enormous resources. For obvious reasons none of these businesses are ever, ever, ever going to accept that, by installing a security system for you, they become liable to you if, despite the security system, you are burgled. So you'd have to fight this all the way. It would take years and the cost would be enormous, both financially and emotionally. And, as I say, you have home insurance precisely so that you don't have to fight this fight.

 

[ClubMan]

House broken into. Car keys and car taken. Alarm failed to activate. Burglars would’ve passed by 2 different sensor/cameras to get the keys. Nothing.

Whatever about the alarm system, what physical security did the burglars have to negotiate/bypass?

As @TomEdison suggests, your house (and motor?) insurance may be your best bet for recompense here.

And if the home alarm system proves to have been useless maybe there's no point in wasting more money on it?

 

[Dublinio]

Is your home insurance not going to compensate you for the theft?

I think your primary worry here is not getting compensated; it's understanding what happened so that you can take effective steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again. The offer of an upgrade from phonewatch is not reassuring; if they don't know what flaw in the system was exploited this time around, how can they be confident that the upgraded system won't have a similar flaw?

Plus, seeking compensation from Phonewatch (or any other home security/alarm service) will be a massive fight that will require enormous resources. None of these businesses are ever, ever, ever going to accept that, by installing a security system for you, they become liable to you if you are burgled. So you'd have to fight this all the way. It would take years and the cost would be enormous, both financially and emotionally. And, as I say, you have home insurance precisely so that you don't have to fight this fight.

Insurance claims are in progress. Understanding what happened? I have no idea what happened. Only Phonewatch could answer that and they can’t/won’t. Agree about not knowing if the upgrade will have a similar flaw. I feel that acutely. All confidence and sense of security is gone. But what can I do? I need an alarm and they’re supposed to be the best? Bizarre that they themselves aren’t bothered to know what actually happened, considering this is their whole reason for being. Really odd. Regarding compensation, shouldn’t I seek it? Isn’t that what you do when you don’t get what you paid for? Their failing has cost more than just the car and damaged locks.

 

[ClubMan]

I need an alarm and they’re supposed to be the best?

According to whom?

Sounds like you maybe need more practical physical security? Locks and bolts and all that?

What did the Gardaí say about the break in when you reported it?

What have your insurance company said?

 

[Dublinio]

Well, it’s them or Verisure and I presume they’re all more or less the same. Don’t know of anyone else.

Yeah I got a bolt for the French doors (which apparently are quite weak by nature). Will get sensor lights too. And a bar for the driveway.

The guards were pretty indifferent. About the alarm fail, ‘yeah that’s a bit weird alright’ and that was about it. I’m half tempted to go back to them specifically about Phonewatch themselves, as it’s actually starting to feel like it was some sort of inside job.

The insurance companies also seem pretty indifferent. Just another claim. In progress. They don’t seem to be disputing anything anyway.

 

[TomEdison]

Regarding compensation, shouldn’t I seek it? Isn’t that what you do when you don’t get what you paid for?

We may be at cross-purposes here. When you asked about looking for compensation I thought — perhaps I was jumping to the conclusion, for which I apologise — that you were looking for compensation for the property that was stolen and/or for the damage done to your property by the forced entry. But you have insurance for that. (Plus, Phonewatch would point out, any damage done by the forced entry was a consequence of the entry itself and would have been sustained even if the alarm had detected the entry.)

What you paid for was a functioning alarm system. If what you want compensation for is the failure to providing a functioning system, you would be compensated by providing you with a functioning system, and I gather they are offering an upgrade, which presumably they think will function (though, as already mentioned, it's hard to be confident about that).

What you really want is a sense of security, but I don't see that there is any compensation they could offer you that would make you feel secure. You could consider switching to a different alarm company. You could also look at the physical vulnerability that was exploited to effect an entry — do you need heavier locks, a stouter door, double glazing? And you could consider installing cameras that operate independently of the alarm system. This won't prevent a break-in, but it will capture what happens during a break-in and you can perhaps see what it is the burglars are doing that circumvents the operation of the alarm.

 

[S class]

I presume the detectors are wireless.

Maybe the thieves can jamm the detectors.
Do you have an app that can indicate jamming ?
You could make a data request to phonewatch to see the full readout of everything that your alarm panel reported back to phonewatch for the day of the break in. If the alarm system is any use it should have reported any jamming activity.

If it was jammed would the new system offered resist jamming ?

It's beyond reasonable to consider that 2 working detectors only failed for a brief period and then started to work perfectly again.

 

[Dublinio]

They sent the log. Just shows I armed it that night and disarmed it next morning. Again, they just say the alarm was functional before and after the event. That’s all they will say.

 

[Dublinio]

We may be at cross-purposes here. When you asked about looking for compensation I thought — perhaps I was jumping to the conclusion, for which I apologise — that you were looking for compensation for the property that was stolen and/or for the damage done to your property by the forced entry. But you have insurance for that. (Plus, Phonewatch would point out, any damage done by the forced entry was a consequence of the entry itself and would have been sustained even if the alarm had detected the entry.)

What you paid for was a functioning alarm system. If what you want compensation for is the failure to providing a functioning system, you would be compensated by providing you with a functioning system, and I gather they are offering an upgrade, which presumably they think will function (though, as already mentioned, it's hard to be confident about that).

What you really want is a sense of security, but I don't see that there is any compensation they could offer you that would make you feel secure. You could consider switching to a different alarm company. You could also look at the physical vulnerability that was exploited to effect an entry — do you need heavier locks, a stouter door, double glazing? And you could consider installing cameras that operate independently of the alarm system. This won't prevent a break-in, but it will capture what happens during a break-in and you can perhaps see what it is the burglars are doing that circumvents the operation of the alarm.

When the door was prised open, the alarm should have started to beep and a bright light should flash. Unlikely the burglars would have proceeded past the door and into the house under those circumstances (and I would still have my car). In any case, their images should have been captured and I and the Guards should have been notified in the moment and not hours later when I woke up. Yes, the insurance will cover the car. Yes, an upgrade is helpful going forward. But I still feel Phonewatch should make up for service not provided as well as the time, inconvenience and upset that comes with what occurred.

 

[MrEarl]

Hello,

I'd also be going after a phonewatch for failing to provide 24/7 monitored alarm service.

I would not be accepting an upgrade (amongst other things, their newer systems are locked down, so you can never change service provider without getting a complete new system installed).

I'd be looking for refund of service premiums paid for an appropriate period, a full detailed diagnostic carried out on my alarm system, at Phonewatch's expense, with documented report of their findings.

If Phonewatch won't play ball, remember their reputation is what keeps them in business, and the likes of Joe Duffy only loves discussing this kinda stuff, trying to get Phonewatch to engage etc.

The Consumer Association may give you some guidance, while the Small Claims Court is also a cheap way of taking legal action against a service provider!

As for the go forward position, anyone that has read my previous posts on home security will know that I value a dog more than any home alarm system, extra lock on the door etc.

 

[MrEarl]

They sent the log. Just shows I armed it that night and disarmed it next morning. Again, they just say the alarm was functional before and after the event. That’s all they will say.

IMHO, that's perfect - it shows that you did what your area supposed to do, so they failed to provide the service they are paid to provide.

They probably have a force majeure clause in their contracts, so no harm checking to ensure there wasn't a breakdown in the phone service that night etc.

 

[Dublinio]

Hello,

I'd also be going after a phonewatch for failing to provide 24/7 monitored alarm service.

I would not be accepting an upgrade (amongst other things, their newer systems are locked down, so you can never change service provider without getting a complete new system installed).

I'd be looking for refund of service premiums paid for an appropriate period, a full detailed diagnostic carried out on my alarm system, at Phonewatch's expense, with documented report of their findings.

If Phonewatch won't play ball, remember their reputation is what keeps them in business, and the likes of Joe Duffy only loves discussing this kinda stuff, trying to get Phonewatch to engage etc.

The Consumer Association may give you some guidance, while the Small Claims Court is also a cheap way of taking legal action against a service provider!

As for the go forward position, anyone that has read my previous posts on home security will know that I value a dog more than any home alarm system, extra lock on the door etc

Hello,

I'd also be going after a phonewatch for failing to provide 24/7 monitored alarm service.

I would not be accepting an upgrade (amongst other things, their newer systems are locked down, so you can never change service provider without getting a complete new system installed).

I'd be looking for refund of service premiums paid for an appropriate period, a full detailed diagnostic carried out on my alarm system, at Phonewatch's expense, with documented report of their findings.

If Phonewatch won't play ball, remember their reputation is what keeps them in business, and the likes of Joe Duffy only loves discussing this kinda stuff, trying to get Phonewatch to engage etc.

The Consumer Association may give you some guidance, while the Small Claims Court is also a cheap way of taking legal action against a service provider!

As for the go forward position, anyone that has read my previous posts on home security will know that I value a dog more than any home alarm system, extra lock on the door etc.

I didn’t agree to the upgrade as yet. I am taking to my solicitor. I didn’t think of the Consumer Association. Good tip, thanks. I thought of contacting the Joe Duffy team. I’m sure PhoneWatch customers would like to know. As for PhoneWatch, they won’t engage on any real level. They just evade and deflect.

 

[kickstart]

They sent the log. Just shows I armed it that night and disarmed it next morning. Again, they just say the alarm was functional before and after the event. That’s all they will say.

I wonder if there is a more extensive engineers log? I know my alarm system (not phonewatch) has lots more records in its log if I type in the engineers code. I can't make head nor tail of it, but the alarm company can and use it to troubleshoot. That said, if the system was jammed and is not particularly sophisticated, then it may well have not detected the tampering.

If you don't have the engineers code, you'll have to ask phonewatch if they can access it for you. They may have to send an engineer on site to access it.

 

[S class]

They sent the log. Just shows I armed it that night and disarmed it next morning. Again, they just say the alarm was functional before and after the event. That’s all they will say.

Make a request under the data protection act.
Phonewatch might have provided an shortened version of the log.
They will have to provide all the data under a data request.
They will have a data protection officer who will be required to ensure that no data is withheld.

 

[Dublinio]

Make a request under the data protection act.
Phonewatch might have provided an shortened version of the log.
They will have to provide all the data under a data request.
They will have a data protection officer who will be required to ensure that no data is withheld.

They sent 2 different technicians on 2 different occasions and the answer was the same both times - “ The alarm was functional before and after the event”. They just say this on repeat. Yeah so what *actually* happened? - “The alarm was functional before and after the event”.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I think a lot of people have got rid of Phone Watch.
In particular, people have advised against upgrading.
With the old systems, you could move to a different monitoring and service company.
With their newer systems, you are stuck with Phone Watch.

Check all this out before agreeing to an upgrade.

 

[Dublinio]

That’s good advice. Will check that out before agreeing to anything. Thank you.

 

[8till8]

I would suggest getting quotes from independent alarm companies and tell each of them how the phonewatch system failed, you might discover what went wrong with the phonewatch alarm