Colm Fagan
Registered User
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It's a straightforward compound interest calculation: 3.26^(1/13.5)=1.09148. (I've to disable the portrait orientation lock on my iPhone to get the power calculation, but you can also do it quickly on a spreadsheet.)Is it not 11.33%? I agree that one would expect 326% to translate into a higher number.
The money for my ARF didn't appear out of thin air on 31 December 2010. It came from a self-administered pension plan, which I started in 1996 and was also invested (almost) entirely in equities - and went through the floor in the GFC, but also experienced the subsequent recovery. I do agree that QE has done wonders for equity returns since then, but I would have happily settled for 3% a year less on average over the period since 2010. That would still have left me with an average return of over 8% a year. BTW, I did experience the "sequence of return" risk: the fund had a negative return in the first year (2011). So what? Of course, it would have been lovely to have kept some of my money in cash at the start of 2011 and then invested it in equities at the end of the year, but I would most likely have kept it in cash (or bonds) for the entire period and would therefore have experienced a lower return overall.Whilst I agree that people with other assets should think of their overall asset profile and consider having an all-equity ARF, you’ve been exceptionally lucky that your investment period started after the Global Financial Crisis. If you’d retired right before the dot.com bubble burst of the GFC kicked in, the picture would be different because of sequence of returns risk etc.
You're right. It's actually 11 but a few of them are small, so there would be only around 7 with a reasonable amount in them. And you're right too that money makeover people would tell me to diversify. I tell myself that, but I haven't had the time to research shares that I would like to add to the portfolio (I may get some time now that my AE idea is dead). Still, I wouldn't be looking to have more than 20 or so reasonable-sized holdings of shares I was comfortable to hold long-term (at whatever the asking price was at the start).You may not want to reveal how many shares are in your ARF and the percentage weighting? From reading your posts over the years, using my bad memory and my model of your fund, I'd estimate about 7 shares with about fifty percent of value concentrated in two shares.
If you did a money makeover post people would say diversify!
My argument was based on simple logic - but it may be faulty.I think the long term expectation of that shape of holding (randomly constructed) is to underperform a passive fund (that tracked the market these are selected from).
I never went down the past performance/ comparison route. Others chose to go down that road.If you're going to go down the past performance / comparison route then it's important to compare like-with-like as accurately as possible.
The YTD figure for the @Gordon Gekko 's family relative on the fund they're invested in (previously dislosed) is 18.92% net of the AMC disclosed and all other costs. The period I'm quoting is 29/12/2023 to 28/06/2024 as those are the dates that the fund prices are available from.
The annualised return for the same fund is 11.3% (net of all charges). The period I'm quoting is 01/01/2011 to 28/06/2024.
But, there are > 400 holdings in the relatives fund. A more concenrated fund on the same platform (with circa 50 holdings) did 11.18%.
Incidentally, the Actively Managed 100% Global Equity Fund and the Global Index Tracker on the same platform over the period 10/03/2011 (the date that the Index Tracker fund was included on the platform) to 28/02/2024 are identical @ 11.44% pa (net of all charges ie the 0.5% AMC and all OOCs and PTCs)
Gerard
www.prsa.
I have to confess that the way actuaries think (or at least the way they express themselves) often leaves me scratching my head in puzzlement. So, with that in mind…By definition, a passive fund mimics the entire market. A random selection of stocks should deliver the same return on average, but with a high chance of under- or over-performing.
Costs matter, no doubt about it. However, these days passive managers can typically track an index to within around 0.1%.The managers of passive funds charge fees. They also vary weightings of different stocks over time, as companies are taken over, go bust, have rights issues, etc. Such changes cost money, not a lot, I'm sure, but a cost nevertheless. A random selection of stocks saves the costs of the manager and of switching.
11.2% compounded over 13 years (11.92^13) is 397%Regardless of how it feels, I’m really struggling to see how any of the above is right.
I checked a family member’s ARF just there which is in an equity fund. 326% for the same period gross of fees, which are 0.6% pa in total (0.5% headline). Seems like a lot more than 11.2% pa over 13 years.
So the cover is in the ARF and the options are outside it. Sounds messy taxwise.My own plan eventually is to hold a portfolio of equities in an ARF and sell Covered Calls to supplement the dividend income. As options trading isn't allowed within a pension wrapper, this would involve a separate account.
From a tax perspective, you can ignore the ARF completely.So the cover is in the ARF and the options are outside it. Sounds messy taxwise.
Me tooI have to confess that the way actuaries think (or at least the way they express themselves) often leaves me scratching my head in puzzlement.
Actuaries love wild examples so let us assume that the market consisted of 10 stocks, costing 1 each. One stock returns 9 another returns 1 and the rest return 0.So, logically it follows that the more concentrated an equity portfolio, the higher the probability that an investor will miss out on the small number of “super performers” and will lag the broader market.
Now, you might argue that there is an equal chance that a concentrated portfolio will avoid the turkeys. However, that’s not the case - there are far fewer stars than turkeys.
I don't want this to become a self-help lesson in compound interest, but you're right (forgetting about the bit in brackets, which should be 1.112^13).11.2% compounded over 13 years (11.92^13) is 397%
Hi @ronaldo. Your plan of having options outside the pension fund reminds me of a brilliant wheeze I thought of a few years ago, but which came badly unstuck - because I thought I knew better than the market.My own plan eventually is to hold a portfolio of equities in an ARF and sell Covered Calls to supplement the dividend income. As options trading isn't allowed within a pension wrapper, this would involve a separate account.
My strategy will, basically, limit upside potential if the shares rise sharply - much less of an issue when using your pension for an income versus earlier decades when you were in the accumulation phase.Hi @ronaldo. Your plan of having options outside the pension fund reminds me of a brilliant wheeze I thought of a few years ago, but which came badly unstuck - because I thought I knew better than the market.
Around 2015 or so, I realised that I had heavy exposure to the UK market. I liked the companies I was invested in, but didn't like the currency. I decided to hedge my sterling exposure, but the options had to be outside the pension fund. Everything was going swimmingly until I decided, after the Labour MP Jo Cox was murdered, that the UK electorate would be so revolted by her murder that they were certain to vote to stay in the EU, so I cashed most of my options. The rest is history!
Hmmm! If they were in the same tax net, in theory you would sell the shares to fund the option losses. But in this case you would pay income tax plus USC on transferring the cash out of the ARF. Of course if the amounts involved are small and you have sufficient liquidity outside the ARF you could just ride it out, meaning you increase your overall equity percentage.Any call options sold that expire worthless will add to your income tax bill (many argue whether options trading is CGT or income but I treat it as income).
Any call options that go deep in the money will cost you more to repurchase, thus suffering a loss (more than offset by the ARF).
This point has been touched on (refuted) by other people, I do believe it's worth discussing further however.By definition, a passive fund mimics the entire market. A random selection of stocks should deliver the same return on average, but with a high chance of under- or over-performing.
Who is the option provider? In my case, I'm the provider as I'm selling the options short. I've been using this strategy for years - just not in a separate pension account.@ronaldo I too would be wary of your strategy. I believe in keeping things as simple as possible and to have the minimum number of snouts in the trough. Your strategy offends against both principles. In my experience, option providers are in it for one thing, to make as much money as possible for themselves. Someone has to pay.
It's unusual times for sure. Most stock-pickers who passed on the magnificent 7 are vastly under-performing the market.The most recent example: Nvidia alone accounts for more than a third of the S&P 500’s gains this year! That's one stock out of 500, driving 30%+ of gains.
Any call options that go deep in the money will cost you more to repurchase, thus suffering a loss (more than offset by the ARF). This would reduce your overall income tax bill.
In a rapidly rising market, you'll have to buy back your options at a loss
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