Pensions Dilemma

[ClubMan]

I just outlined advantages and disadvantages.

Not of a bundled product specifically. The advantages apply just as much to an unbundled product. However the misselling/overcharging disadvantgage is specific to the bundled product. In the absence of further reasons why bundling is a good idea this is good enough reason to avoid it and industry insiders who arbitrarily recommend such bundling.

The lending institiuion may offer better terms to borrowers (>70% for example) on a bundled product than unbundled product

Quite possibly at the cost of higher charges that might be available on an unbundled product. What specific lenders offer such preferential deals for bundled pension mortgages and what charges apply?

if you trust advisers and institutions so little as you seem to, then I am amazed that you do not keep all your cash in a mattress under your bed.

Once again your are misrepresenting my comments. I never said that I distrusted advisors or institutions. Just those, for example, that recommend bundling of products without obvious good reasons and perhaps tell customers not to worry their little heads about the details.

Cynicism is not constructive.

Like suggesting that somebody put their money under the mattress for example?

Anyway - I've said my piece on being wary of Greeks bearing gifts (industry insiders pushing bundled products) and don't think that further discussion of this matter will help the original poster so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Capital1]

Why do you quote all my messages?
Is it because you have so little of merit to say yourself (besides nit-pick at every single line of my comment)?

I am not trying to sell this person a pension mortgage.

I am giving the person information on how - if they are thinking in terms of a PRSA as against a property - they should view the PRSA or any other pension as a means of funding for this property.
I do not care whether they bundle or not.

Irish Life-Permanent TSB will allow pension mortgages up to 90% and the same lender may not be able to get over 70% if they unbundled.

I never told anyone not to worry about the detail.
The detail is for the client and their AA.
This website is for general useful ideas, obviously nobody should take out a pension of any form without thinking of ALL the pros and cons.

 

[ClubMan]

Why do you quote all my messages?

Because it makes it easier for me and others to maintain context and to see what specific point I am responding to.

Is it because you have so little of merit to say yourself (besides nit-pick at every single line of my comment)?

I have said lots of substance in this and many other threads thanks.

 

[Capital1]

Not in your last three messages in this thread anyway, you're welcome.

 

[ClubMan]

Not in this one, you're welcome.

Come again? What are you referring to? Are you insinuation that none of my comments in this thread have been factual and constructive? Feel free to rebut anything that you feel is incorrect or disagree with. However please don't misrepresent my comments or engage in incivility as you have done several times here and elsewhere.

 

[Capital1]

I am saying that you keep asking the same question and do not answer the poster's questions - you just attempt to question everybody else's advice except your own.

That is incivility - and cynicism - maybe it's your age has led you to be so cynical about everything, but most people would prefer suggestions than a barrage of negative comments.

 

[ClubMan]

I am saying that you keep asking the same question and do not answer the poster's questions - you just attempt to question everybody else's advice except your own.

I make no apology for challenging what I see as dodgy comments (such as recommending a bundled pension mortgage over separate products where is no good reason to do so and where it might actually be a bad idea for the consumer). If such comments are repeated then so too will my challenges. This is the nature of a discussion forum - to voice opinions, ideally based on fact and (at least here) in the interest of consumers.

That is incivility - and cynicism

I disagree.

maybe it's your age

Whence this non sequitur?

has led you to be so cynical about everything

Don't confuse skepticism (especially of vested interests) with cynicism.

but most people would prefer suggestions than a barrage of negative comments.

I see only one person objecting to my contributions and dismissing them as a "barrage of negative comments". I shall draw my own conclusions.

 

[Capital1]

Well I presume they are waiting for you to suggest some pension solutions for the poster.

That is what I am doing from now on.

In relation to pension mortgage - unless this person is a company director (in which case the person could set-up a SART) then the best solution for this person if they want to start a pension and buy a property is to use some combination of pension and property investments.

You can call it what you like - pension mortgage, a pension and an interest only mortgage, bundle or unbundle - I don't care what way the person wants to do it.

But it is for ideas like this that the message was posted.

Not for someone like you to question every suggestion, the details of interest rate charged, commission, allocation rates, bid/offer spreads, rip off etc...they apply to everything - anybody can get ripped off - that is up to the person to make sure they do not get a bad deal.

 

[ClubMan]

You can call it what you like - pension mortgage, a pension and an interest only mortgage, bundle or unbundle - I don't care what way the person wants to do it.

Er, that is the key point. You may not care but the consumer should. A bundled product carries risks of misselling and overcharging that separate products do not. Consumers should be wary (i.e. maintain a healthy skepticism, not be cynical) of product bundling especially when recommended by industry insiders.

rip off etc...they apply to everything - anybody can get ripped off - that is up to the person to make sure they do not get a bad deal.

And, all things being equal, by not unnecessarily going for bundled products they reduce the risk of being overcharged or even "ripped-off" (a phrase that I never use lightly).

Back to the original post I am not convinced that pension and property is necessarily the best option for the original poster. It's very difficult to say in the presence of partial information. They may want to buy an investment/retirement property in addition to their existing home but this may not be the best option for their circumstances. That is why I was recommending them to take a step back and review their overall situation and only then determine what might be the possible and best options. I have already suggested that the original poster clarify their existing pension situation. To recomment specific products (pensions, investment/interest only mortgages etc.) is premature in my opinion. They need to do an objective fact find/financial review (unilaterally or ideally with a good intermediary) and only then decide what they should be doing in terms of financial planning.

However if they do want more detailed information and recommendations about specific pension options then there is a wealth of existing threads on these issues in this forum that are of general interest to anybody reviewing their pension needs.

 

[Capital1]

Er, that is the key point. You may not care but the consumer should. A bundled product carries risks of misselling and overcharging that separate products do not. Consumers should be wary (i.e. maintain a healthy skepticism, not be cynical) of product bundling especially when recommended by industry insiders.


And, all things being equal, by not unnecessarily going for bundled products they reduce the risk of being overcharged or even "ripped-off" (a phrase that I never use lightly).

I never recommended bundling - I put forward the idea of thinking of property and pension together, not separately.
Let us not forget - you had not even mentioned the idea of using the pension in any way in terms of the property - so I am glad that a useful discussion of pension funding property has ensued thanks to my thinking.

Not at all - a person can be ripped off by a pension product easily, particularly by a long nil-allocation period, by capital (rather than accumulation) units, and by high up-front charges.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Capital1

I have no doubt that your expertise will be useful to the people on Askaboutmoney. I have no doubt that you will learn some things from Askaboutmoney. But there is a house style. There is a way of disagreeing with people. There is a way of correcting mistakes. It is not the same style that is very popular on other discussion forums. We discourage the following types of comments. If you are able to answer the questions and disagree with other posters without resorting to these types of comments, you are very welcome to continue posting. If you are unable to comply with the posting guidelines, please find some other forum which would appreciate you more.

you are utterly incorrect here

This is ridiculous!

Cynicism is not constructive.

Is it because you have so little of merit to say yourself (besides nit-pick at every single line of my comment)?

That is incivility - and cynicism - maybe it's your age has led you to be so cynical about everything, but most people would prefer suggestions than a barrage of negative comments.

 

[Capital1]

Brendan - I will not post solutions anymore so.

I was trying to help a user - the messages posted by Clubman I found extremely unhelpful.

Thanks for your message - I will leave you and Club to it in this thread.

 

[ClubMan]

the messages posted by Clubman I found extremely unhelpful.

Well the important thing is that the original poster found some of my comments useful.

Hi ClubMan,

Thanks alot for your comprehensive reply ! Much appreciated !

...

Once again, thanks for the replies they're greatly appreciated.

 

[Capital1]

ClubMan, excellent work, great solutions put forward.

 

[ClubMan]

Thanks.