Pension query

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Alan Moore

Guest
Evening Rant

LNP/Laser position.

AAM attracts those (like me) that like to ensure that they are not getting ripped off and want to avail of good deals.

However, I think that sometimes we go too far, e.g. www.vietnamonlinestore.com. Here in this thread there are also two examples of same though maybe not as extreme.

1. JJones was attracted to a PRSA because of the low entry costs on offer even though from the few details given it would appear on the surface of it that a PRSA would not be the best vehicle.

2. Now my pet hate. The Quinn Life recommendation in the "Holy Grail" i.e. the Guide.

"It has by far the lowest charges of any pension fund available in Ireland"

Not true. If you are serious about your pension ( i.e. contributing to a level to give a reasonable retirement income ) the best value you'll achieve is by going to a financial adviser, agreeing a fee for advising and setting up a tailor made pension whereby the adviser does not receive commission. If you are solely hung up on costs it won't be Quinn Life that is recommended.

Second pet hate is that "We recommend that you should invest 100% of your pension in equities". Put all your eggs in one basket? Only for the high risk investor only. Take the Quinn Life Biotech. It is getting reviews for being the best performing fund this year. No mention of how it did last year. Why? Because it was worth 50% more at one point as recent as last year. If you have built up a considerable fund do you want to exposed to this type of volatility.

Point is, each of us has different needs / objectives and attitudes to risk. Going the cheap road may cost you more than you can afford in the long run. I perceive that we (the financial advisers) are sometimes considered to be bad guys.

There was a comparison made with a doctor earlier. Well I'll ask if self-prescription were allowed would you diagnose yourself or seek advice?
 
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Ratna

Guest
The recommendation

Physician heal thyself!

Alan you are in a minority as you choose to operate mainly on a fee basis.

How many AAs out there operating on fees or commission have recommended Quinn Life for anything - Life Assurance, Savings etc? An educated guess would put it at not many if any. Yet, under regulations, this is impossible. Quinn should be doing quite well in some areas even if we could imagine their only source of business was obtained from AA referrals. We all know this is not happening, so there must be quite a lot of 'bad guys' still out there.

Call it Quinn, call it PRSAs call it Direct, Discount, Execution only... they are all threats to the existing commission models.

Lets welcome the fact that there is more competition in the financial marketplace today than there was five years ago, so its a move in the right direction. Thank God for competition and may competitors thrive.
 
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Alan Moore

Guest
Aye carumba....

"Quinn should be doing quite well in some areas even if we could imagine their only source of business was obtained from AA referrals"

I disagree (well for Pensions/Investment Business anyhow) . Assume for a moment that all business was done on nil commission for a moment. QL works out to be one of the more expensive.

If the client has done his/her own research themselves they will get a better deal by going to a broker asking for an execution only deal with another company.

If the client wants to pay a fee for advice rather than commissions the AA can get a better deal than Quinn.

If the client wants to pay for advice by way of commission, QL don't pay, so its not an option for the client.

If the client doesn't want to go near an adviser well then Quinn is one of the cheapest options out there for going directly to an insurance company.

In addition they only offer 5 equity funds and 1 bond fund. Hardly a range to cover all clients.

Explain to me now, why Quinn should do well from AA referrals, given that the client has come to the adviser for advice?

I have done business with QL for mainly for those that want a Biotech investment.
 
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Ratna

Guest
slight deviation

Alan, If a client takes advice and then proceeds to arrange the business through a provider then this advice has to be paid for. One cannot assume that a fee is only payable if business is transacted.

As an exercise would anyone care to find out exactly how much business Quinn, One, Acorn and others have obtained from AA referrals?

I'd imagine you'll find most AAs have rather negative preconceived notions about these non broker companies or direct sellers and thats the reason why no business is 'recommended' their way.

Regarding fact finds and customer disputes. I think the customer should keep their own record of advice given as they understand it and get the financial adviser to agree and sign it. The other way is one sided and offers the consumer little real protection should complaints go to investigation or court. Wouldn't you all agree?
 
L

LNP

Guest
One Sided

Yes Ratna. I think everyone should contact IFSRA and get them to reverse the new imposed legislation, on the advisor market, on the grounds that it offers no protection to the customer because consumers should never be held responsible for their own decisions.

T.I.C.
 
A

Alan Moore

Guest
I give up.......

You haven't answered my question and given me a reason why Quinn should be recommended for pensions/investments but only retorted that you "imagine" that we (the AAs) have preconceived negative notions about the likes of Quinn.
 
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Ratna

Guest
if you wish...

One should take the broad view of things and not give up so easily. Reading the various posts on AAM I recognise many financial adviser prejudices when I read one.

Peoples needs differ (as you mentioned Biotec fund for eg) and its not beyond the realms of probability that some of the people advisers would be in contact with as they go about their daily businesss would fit the Quinn, Tesco etc mould of suitability. This isn't happening. Why?

LNP. If I asked you to sign a statement which out lines my understanding of the product you wish to sell to me would you think I was being unreasonable? If I'm investing a large sum or if my retirement or family future depends on your advice I would't think so. I may think it would be folly for me not to.
 
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Alan Moore

Guest
Are you going to answer the question?

You said

"Quinn should be doing quite well in some areas even if we could imagine their only source of business was obtained from AA referrals"

Why? Why? Why? Why?

Statements containing "I'd imagine" and "realms of probability" don't count.

Why? Why? Why? Why?
 
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Ratna

Guest
the question

Well Alan you admitted earlier that you sent one investment Quinn's way so I'm sure you know why you did it.
 
A

Alan Moore

Guest
Answer the question.......

I know the reason why I had a reason to recommend Quinn but YOU DON'T. Client had a 1 in 1,000,000 scenario.

I'll remind you of the question.

"Quinn should be doing quite well in some areas even if we could imagine their only source of business was obtained from AA referrals" - Why

Would love if you started a reply with

"Quinn should be........ from AA referrals" because of the following facts:

Either answer the question or please tell me you don't know why.
 
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Ratna

Guest
comment

I'm not asking you to take it personally. I stand by my comments which in passing are not directed at you. Read my post carefully. You have my ISP pick up the phone if it helps but please leave commentry on the subject open to all.
 
A

Alan Moore

Guest
Re: comment

Apologies if I appear to be taking this personally. But I'm always open to different points of view once I see some logic. Best way to hopefully convince you that we (the AA's) aren't complete biggots. If QL were so good, it should go hand in hand that AAs would give them a lot of their personal business? They don't.
 
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alannah

Guest
Car 54 where are you ?

Alan do you need Laser's help ?
 
A

Alan Moore

Guest
Lasers Help?

Haven't resorted to the columbian necktie treatment just yet?
 
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LNP

Guest
Quinn,EBS etc

Ratna

Do you have any practical experience or suggestions of how an advisor should deal with these companies? Particularly, in terms of administration and what the companies can and can't tell the advisor about his clients policy.

What are the implications for the advisor in respect of his code of conduct when he is not an agent of the company?
 
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LNP

Guest
Quinn,EBS etc

Where is the evidence to suggest that these little outfits are actually interested in doing business with advisors?
 
B

Biggles

Guest
re: Quinn, EBS etc

Where is the evidence to suggest that these little outfits are actually interested in doing business with advisors?
Well, according to a snippet in this month's Irish Broker magazine, the IBA are in discussions with Quinn Life.
 
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LNP

Guest
re: Quinn, EBS etc

Fair enough, but ratnas argument revolves around the past.
 
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Not Ratna

Guest
re: Quinn, EBS etc

if a company sells directly and dont share this information then how do financial advisers get up to date detailed information on their product range so they can advise their clients?
 
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Eland

Guest
All quiet

I wonder why the advisers are speechless on question posed, Not Ratna? Perhaps it touches a nerve.
 
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