Penalty points Alan Shatter and Mick Wallace

Delboy said:
Wallace is screaming about a 'corrupt' system that he himself has benefited from but forgot to mention that at the outset!
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This is not true. Wallace is correct, the system is corrupt. It is corrupt that people get penalty points and get them wiped because they are a judge, a politician, a gardai or a friend of a garda.

The gardai not giving Wallace penalty points was a gardai using their discretion and I see nothing wrong with that. Gardai do this all the time and it's fair enough. What is wrong is people who have been given penalty points have them wiped. What is wrong is gardai investigation themselves on this and claiming everything is hunky dory. It is not.

There are circumstances where penalty points should be dropped, duplication, error or a serious reason for it and I don't put going to funerals as a serious reason, more like a spurious reason. In genuine cases it should be documented, why and by who penalty points are dropped. A transparent open system that can be checked and verified and we're far from that.

Could someone explain to me why a private citizen, even if he is a TD, should have a minor incident, or no relevance whatsoever, have his particular transgression abused by the Minister for Justice for political gain only.

The incident was so minor to Wallace that he couldn't even recall it and it is quite clear that he was not 'stopped' by the gardai at all.

And for the record I have always admired Shatter despite his arrogance. And I'd rather he didn't have to resign but it is a resigning matter as far as I'm concerned.
 
Bronte said:
The gardai not giving Wallace penalty points was a gardai using their discretion and I see nothing wrong with that. Gardai do this all the time and it's fair enough.
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Wallace had spoken out previously saying that no discretion should be exercised by the Gardai, calling for all those who had benefitted from such discretion to be brought before the courts. He has since rowed back on that!
 
Bronte said:
This is not true. Wallace is correct, the system is corrupt. It is corrupt that people get penalty points and get them wiped because they are a judge, a politician, a gardai or a friend of a garda.

The gardai not giving Wallace penalty points was a gardai using their discretion and I see nothing wrong with that.
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I'd wager you have a better chance of not getting points in the 1st place if your a well know face (or head in this case)....so discretion is more likely to be used for (in)famous citizens such as Wallace rather than for myself for example.

So to me it's all corrupt
 
Latrade said:
I agree with there being a justification with regards to demonstrating hypocrisy, but I don't think it does. I see the issue raised by Wallace et al and the specific issue raised by Shatter as being completely different. However, that's not really the question people have. What people want to know is how did Shatter find out.
...So with what Wallace is alleging, there is a paper trail, with what Shatter is alleging, there’s nothing. Someone has obvious reported a story up the chain of command to him maliciously. So how did the Minister for Justice come by the information and why did he think it ok to present the information on television?
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This,in my opinion, sums it up. Where/ how did Shatter acquire the information, and how can it be acceptable to use information like that as ammunition to throw out at someone on live tv, or anywhere else?
I am no fan of either individual involved, but I really believe Shatter has abused his power as Minister here and it should not be glossed over by Enda Kenny. This has implications also for the Gardai, in my view. There are a lot of questions to be answered, starting with Shatter. I won't hold my breath.
 
This story is quite amazing and reminds me of one Sean Doherty and phone tapping.

Still don't understand how come a minor interaction between two ordinary cops and a TD ended up at Commissioner level, why would that happen. Are ordinary policemen obliged to record and report all incidents with politicians.

Why would the Garda Commissioner even tell Shatter, it sounds like gossip from the Commissioner to Shatter, surely the Commissioner would not report such information unless there was documentary proof and it were for the public good. Rather than being an attempt to do down an opponent, which is the way it came accross.

How come we have 3 independant TD's, who have accussed the gardai of some kind of corruption, and yet those 3 TD's seem to have every move they make recorded. Ming is a hypocrite who got points wiped, twice, Claire Daly was handcuffed and brought to a police station for turning incorrectly at lights, is it routine to handcuff TD's in such a manner, and now this non even with Wallace ends up being divulted to the nation courtesy of the Minister for Justice. Why do we know about all of these incidents.
 
Leo said:
Wallace had spoken out previously saying that no discretion should be exercised by the Gardai, calling for all those who had benefitted from such discretion to be brought before the courts. He has since rowed back on that!
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Claire Byrne stated that he said no such thing? That she was in the studio when Mick Wallace was speaking and that is not what he said?

It would be interesting to have a poll to see if the Irish public believes the Pulse system is open to abuse. Do the people on AAM believe that no points are wiped without a valid reason, that those that are wiped are not documented and accounted for and transparent.
 
of course points are wiped for non valid reasons, we already know that. what we are being told is that it only happend on a small scale, i dont believe that for one minute.
the fact that the cops were allowed to investigate themselves on this says it all.
 
Bronte said:
Claire Byrne stated that he said no such thing? That she was in the studio when Mick Wallace was speaking and that is not what he said?
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Well if Claire said so... :rolleyes:

Why then did he then admit his call to do so would clog up the courts system, and call for a paper trail of all such incidents in future?
 
Bronte said:
It would be interesting to have a poll to see if the Irish public believes the Pulse system is open to abuse.
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What do the Irish public know about the PULSE system ??
A survey, with such a leading question, would only have one outcome...
 
Actually that's a good point Gianni, what do we actually know about how the Pulse works, did the report on it not outline that?

Leo, don't get what you mean about Claire Byrne, it was a current affairs programe on RTE that I'm referring to. Do you mean she is incorrect?

Interesting to see how the dealing of Mick with the gardai has got legs. Now out of the blue a story from 13 years ago.

What has Mick et al done to upset certain sections of society, maybe he's hit a raw nerve on penalty points. And more particularly in relation to 'discretion.' That's the only conclusion I can come to.
 
Bronte said:
Leo, don't get what you mean about Claire Byrne, it was a current affairs programe on RTE that I'm referring to. Do you mean she is incorrect?
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Mick has since admitted to saying it, so I guess he's saying she is incorrect.
 
Leo said:
Mick has since admitted to saying it, so I guess he's saying she is incorrect.
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No I don't think you are correct, Mick says that garda discretion is fine in day to day work, but where there are penalty points given, then after this the wiping of these points should be done in an open and tranparent manner, I think he mentioned in a courtroom. Basically we citizens are left with the feeling that SOME people can get penalty points wiped for spurious reasons. Reasons like being a gardai, a judge, a politician or someone who knows a garda.

Anyway as this GUBU continues. How come Shatter when he was not able to complete the breathliser test was he not arrested, handcuffed like Claire Daly and brought to the station to give a urine sample.

Why the difference in treatment?

Big questions now to be answer by the Gardai.

Meanwhile get your orders in for 50 shades of Shatter, coming to the presses any day now.

It's amazing how clever people can be so silly. What goes around comes around I guess.
 
Have to say that Shatter has a lot of questions to answer.

The continued support of Enda Kenny and Gilmore tomards him - raises questions with regard to their leadership and judgement.

The Gardai also have some serious questions to answer.

GUBU indeed
 
Bronte said:
No I don't think you are correct, Mick says that garda discretion is fine in day to day work, but where there are penalty points given, then after this the wiping of these points should be done in an open and tranparent manner, I think he mentioned in a courtroom.
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Are you Mick Wallace in disguise(incognito)? :D

You can think what you like, I'm just quoting what he said himself. If you don't think I'm correct, then you're calling him a liar! When he retracted the call to bring all such cases before the courts, it was then he said it should be done in an open and transparent manner.

To be clear, I'm not saying any party here is right, I think they're all wrong, and unfortunately for us, all as corrupt as each other.
 
TRS30 said:
Mattie McGrath.
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:D yes I understood that, my point was more, where did he get this information? Is it another case of him speaking to the garda commissioner and this slipping into the conversation? Why are people not asking Mattie the same question of how did you come to know this that were asked of Shatter?
 
Ceist Beag said:
Why are people not asking Mattie the same question of how did you come to know this that were asked of Shatter?
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Maybe they are.

But it is disgraceful that a Minister can use confidential garda information in the course of a political debate.

Do FG or Labour have any political standards?

If this happened in the UK - the Minister would be gone.

Why are low political standards so acceptable here?
 
cork said:
But it is disgraceful that a Minister can use confidential garda information in the course of a political debate.
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But why is it deemed confidential information? What is confidential about it?
 
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