I feel it will be a mini-miracle at this stage if things go anyway smooth. Oh I agree, talk of solicitors it a bit too early, but may have to to get my money back.
Paid about half quoted price for kitchen. Now they want more before they fit it.
- Thread starter Noilheart
- Start date
I feel it will be a mini-miracle at this stage if things go anyway smooth. Oh I agree, talk of solicitors it a bit too early, but may have to to get my money back.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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Noilheart
This is very simple.
When you signed a contract for the kitchens, it would have specified when payment is due.
If it specified all but €517 before they deliver, then that is what you should pay. That is your contract. End of story.
If the contract specified that it was not to be paid until the it was installed then you should not pay anything more.
Kitchen suppliers and window manufactures are having difficulty these days getting paid, even after they have installed.
As I understand it , kitchen manufacturers manufacture to order. They would have no business manufacturing something other than your ordered.
It is unusual of you to ask to see them in the shop. How would you feel if they asked to see your bank statement to make sure that the money was in your account?
It sounds as if you are a difficult customer, and so they probably should oblige you and show them to you.
You can pay with a debit card. You have the same protection as credit card companies.
Ah, so is that the real issue? You have changed your mind the week before the kitchen is due to be installed. And you want to stick them for the cost of manufacturing them to your specification?
Brendan
This is very simple.
When you signed a contract for the kitchens, it would have specified when payment is due.
If it specified all but €517 before they deliver, then that is what you should pay. That is your contract. End of story.
If the contract specified that it was not to be paid until the it was installed then you should not pay anything more.
Kitchen suppliers and window manufactures are having difficulty these days getting paid, even after they have installed.
As I understand it , kitchen manufacturers manufacture to order. They would have no business manufacturing something other than your ordered.
It is unusual of you to ask to see them in the shop. How would you feel if they asked to see your bank statement to make sure that the money was in your account?
It sounds as if you are a difficult customer, and so they probably should oblige you and show them to you.
You can pay with a debit card. You have the same protection as credit card companies.
Ah, so is that the real issue? You have changed your mind the week before the kitchen is due to be installed. And you want to stick them for the cost of manufacturing them to your specification?
Brendan
Brendan, I cannot let you get away with saying I am a difficult customer, you know very little about me, so please do not get so personal. I pay all my bills and am an upstanding customer in many businesses.
I did not ask to see the cabinets they have manufactured as you would know if you bothered to read my thread. What I did want was confirmation that the appliances, particularly the cooker, would be available for installation on Wednesday. It was not forthcoming despite calling in, phoning, emailing.
And you make another nasty accusation about me wanting to stick them for the cost of manufacturing......really! Nothing could me further from the truth, I am a genuine customer dearly longing for my first kitchen since 1984! Have some respect for me please. Must it so often to come to people getting insulted when they have a problem they want to discuss on this website?
Anyway, there have been developments due to the intervention of my daughter. Will up date when all is known. And thank you all for the information that was helpful.
Brendan Burgess
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Hi Noilheart
Apologies - I missed the point about the appliances. I thought it was the whole kitchen.
But there is something very odd about your story. Would you not agree?
You have not answered my question. What did the contract say about payment?
It strikes me as very odd that you want to cancel a kitchen "and be done with them" the day before it's due to be installed. Especially after you have paid €4,471 which you will presumably lose.
If I order something, I assume that what I order will be delivered. I don't check with them the previous week to make sure it's in stock.
If your contract specifies that you will pay the balance on the day installation begins, and they ask for it in advance, that would worry me and I would refuse to pay. But I wouldn't want out of the deal.
As I say, there is something odd about the story - maybe "incomplete" is a better word.
Maybe it's not odd to want to see the appliances a week before they are due to be installed. But it's odd to want to cancel it because they won't show them to you.
You are very critical of a named company. I have to be very careful, that they are not defamed by you. So I have to point out the oddness or incompleteness of your story.
I look forward to the update.
Brendan
Apologies - I missed the point about the appliances. I thought it was the whole kitchen.
But there is something very odd about your story. Would you not agree?
You have not answered my question. What did the contract say about payment?
It strikes me as very odd that you want to cancel a kitchen "and be done with them" the day before it's due to be installed. Especially after you have paid €4,471 which you will presumably lose.
If I order something, I assume that what I order will be delivered. I don't check with them the previous week to make sure it's in stock.
If your contract specifies that you will pay the balance on the day installation begins, and they ask for it in advance, that would worry me and I would refuse to pay. But I wouldn't want out of the deal.
So what are you proposing? That you will just walk away from the money you have already paid? That you will pay for the cabinets but not the appliances?
As I say, there is something odd about the story - maybe "incomplete" is a better word.
Maybe it's not odd to want to see the appliances a week before they are due to be installed. But it's odd to want to cancel it because they won't show them to you.
You are very critical of a named company. I have to be very careful, that they are not defamed by you. So I have to point out the oddness or incompleteness of your story.
I look forward to the update.
Brendan
Noilheart,
I suspect you have invested a lot of money and emotion into this kitchen. You come across as a bit 'uptight' about it. Worry about what ifs. That is understandable.
To XYZ Ltd it is just another kitchen. Perhaps their communications are poor in this instance. But I would not assume that it is all going pear-shaped. I know 2 people who have kitchens from them and no issues.
Just go with it. All other customers, and I assume they have many happy ones, had to go through this. The kitchen will arrive, and so will your appliances. If something is amiss then sort it out when it happens!
I hope you enjoy your new kitchen!
I suspect you have invested a lot of money and emotion into this kitchen. You come across as a bit 'uptight' about it. Worry about what ifs. That is understandable.
To XYZ Ltd it is just another kitchen. Perhaps their communications are poor in this instance. But I would not assume that it is all going pear-shaped. I know 2 people who have kitchens from them and no issues.
Just go with it. All other customers, and I assume they have many happy ones, had to go through this. The kitchen will arrive, and so will your appliances. If something is amiss then sort it out when it happens!
I hope you enjoy your new kitchen!
Brendan,
Apologies accepted. I do not agree about my story being "odd", but what I do think is odd (in the sense of unexpected of a man in your position) you are not reading my posts properly before replying. I most certainly did not request to "see" the appliances, that would be a bit much and I am not an unreasonable person, I simply requested confirmation that they would be available so that I could happily hand over the money when the arrived. I have paid all money they have asked for so far.
My story is incomplete to you , due to shortage of time or energy to give an exact blow by blow account. I got so fed up with their lack of communication that I did want to cancel because of the terror of what it would be like to deal with them if anything did actually go wrong.
My Terms & Conditions states that if the kitchen is cancelled after manufacture then customer is liable for the full amount. Aside from the fact that contract terms are not supposed to put customers at a disadvantage (and I would be at a disadvantage if I pay over full money for the appliances and it turned out appliances not available), I would like to point out to you that I have paid for the cabinets almost in full and the amount outstanding of €2,327 plus the hold-over of €517 constitutes most of the cost of the appliance money, and they would not confirm to me until late today that the appliances would arrive on Wednesday. Hence my terror at having money demanded without due communication. They have been in touch with us and I am trying to keep the faith with them, but so far all I will say about them is that they need a lesson in timely customer communication.
Apologies accepted. I do not agree about my story being "odd", but what I do think is odd (in the sense of unexpected of a man in your position) you are not reading my posts properly before replying. I most certainly did not request to "see" the appliances, that would be a bit much and I am not an unreasonable person, I simply requested confirmation that they would be available so that I could happily hand over the money when the arrived. I have paid all money they have asked for so far.
My story is incomplete to you , due to shortage of time or energy to give an exact blow by blow account. I got so fed up with their lack of communication that I did want to cancel because of the terror of what it would be like to deal with them if anything did actually go wrong.
My Terms & Conditions states that if the kitchen is cancelled after manufacture then customer is liable for the full amount. Aside from the fact that contract terms are not supposed to put customers at a disadvantage (and I would be at a disadvantage if I pay over full money for the appliances and it turned out appliances not available), I would like to point out to you that I have paid for the cabinets almost in full and the amount outstanding of €2,327 plus the hold-over of €517 constitutes most of the cost of the appliance money, and they would not confirm to me until late today that the appliances would arrive on Wednesday. Hence my terror at having money demanded without due communication. They have been in touch with us and I am trying to keep the faith with them, but so far all I will say about them is that they need a lesson in timely customer communication.
Oh thank you fraggle for your kind comments, yes I got very uptight when I was constantly drawing a blank when I tried to get them to confirm that my appliances would be available, they were so vague. I had other questions about piping and emailed and rang but totally ignored. Yes they certainly have fallen down in their customer communications with me and it is spoiling the thoughts of new kitchen, but I am trying to keep the faith with them. We actually sent a cancellation request in the end, and they then began to actually engage with us.
Brendan Burgess
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Hi Noilheart
PadraigB, who must have read your posts properly, gave you the solution to your question.
That is very normal.
I think you have made it difficult for yourself by asking if the appliances arrived. Maybe "odd" is the wrong word - "uptight" is better .
PadraigB, who must have read your posts properly, gave you the solution to your question.
That is very normal.
I think you have made it difficult for yourself by asking if the appliances arrived. Maybe "odd" is the wrong word - "uptight" is better .
seantheman
Registered User
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Nothing to stop you doing this, just dont plan on getting your deposit back.
Seriously? I think asking whether appliances have arrived is perfectly acceptable customer behaviour, and not in any way "odd" or "uptight". I do find it strange, and cause for concern, that the company cannot answer this question.
T McGibney
Registered User
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Any product provider or wholesaler using Just In Time processes won't receive product until imminently before the scheduled date/time for delivery to the end customer.
This is the problem in the first sentence.
I still think your well within your rights to know that the appliances are exactly the ones ordered. I recently had a dispute over an oversized family fridge freezer one came with ice/water dispenser and one didnt. (which I posted here about), I wanted the ice one and low and behold the other one was delivered. Had to drive half an hour and demand it was collected the next day as they wanted to leave it in my house till next one could be delivered which was going to be weeks. They only collected as I said fine ill leave it outside my back door as its a danger to my children, which was true.
I always do and always will as I find some places the level of customer service has deteriorated as they reduce staff numbers.
Just as I was beginning to wonder if anyone actually read what the OP posted! +1 Sandals and dubgem
Calling the OP 'uptight' is really offensive and I'm amazed at some of the posts here, Brendan especially.
Sounds to me as if OP is being careful and right to be.
Calling the OP 'uptight' is really offensive and I'm amazed at some of the posts here, Brendan especially.
Sounds to me as if OP is being careful and right to be.
I agree. I've had several experiences in the last two years of companies claiming an item is in stock and then waiting literally months for it to be delivered. The OP here is clearly quite willing to pay when they know the goods are available as promised. It is a pity there is not some standard mechanism for placing money in escrow in such circumstances, so that both buyer and seller are protected. Frankly I see no reason why taking a supplier at their word should be the default option -- too many are untrustworthy.
Brendan Burgess
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As this thread is potentially defamatory of a named company, I have removed the name of the company from the opening post.
- The heading implies that they are being unreasonable, whereas it seems that they are just seeking payment in line with their contract
- "I think they are a bit too forward with money demands but I have no guarantee that I will get the goods ordered." Nor has anyone who orders goods for later delivery.
- Vague allegations which we can't substantiate " I dont want to cast aspersions against them yet either, but they have communicated very poorly with me and not addressed my concerns. Phonecalls, emails, etc go unanswered."
- Despite not wanting to cast aspersions on them, she says " I Really want just to cancel and be done with them. before I get too caught up with them."
- Noilheart is complaining about a service before she has received it. At least her previous complaints about her hairdresser, her plasterer, Mastercare, her carpetfitter and her friend's painter were made after the service was delivered.
Well caught Brendan, imagine someone using a website called 'askaboutmoney' to complain or seek advice about various services or, indeed, a financial institution. I haven't taken the time to trawl through their previous threads but great to see you have, and you have spared the rest of us the forensic examination.
Noilheart, I for one think you are absolutely right to be careful and I think it is a disgrace that you are being called 'uptight'. Continue to be careful and ignore the naysayers.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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So Vanilla
I take it you see nothing at all odd with someone wanting to break a contract a few days before it is delivered because they are alleged not to have communicated?
Or you see nothing wrong with a misleading heading about a named company?
I think that this is very odd behaviour.
And do check out the previous threads. She has made a series of complaints and has taken offence at anyone who dared to question the fairness of her complaints.
It's one thing to complain about unnamed companies but it is unfair to a named company to complain about them when there doesn't seem to me to be any grounds for complaint.
Brendan
I take it you see nothing at all odd with someone wanting to break a contract a few days before it is delivered because they are alleged not to have communicated?
Or you see nothing wrong with a misleading heading about a named company?
I think that this is very odd behaviour.
And do check out the previous threads. She has made a series of complaints and has taken offence at anyone who dared to question the fairness of her complaints.
It's one thing to complain about unnamed companies but it is unfair to a named company to complain about them when there doesn't seem to me to be any grounds for complaint.
Brendan
M
mercman
Guest
It will be interesting to see how the fitting went today, to start with.
It did seem slightly OTT to me. The issue was not with the kitchen, only the appliances. It would seem reasonable to withold payment for them until delivery (though people pay lots of companies for these in advance of delivery all the time-so doing so is nothing groundbreaking) Were they not delivered, or be different to the ones ordered you simply don't pay and refuse delivery of them.
Speculating if, what, when, in advance of performance of a contract is just that-speculation. Its interesting to learn there was previous questioning of service levels or whatever elsewhere. Once, twice sure, that can happen but repeatedly, that does point to a trend of being difficult or very unlucky!!!
All that said, I hope the delivery/fitting went/goes well and that the OP could come back on here and publically recommend the company. That would be a fitting and fair way to close off.
Speculating if, what, when, in advance of performance of a contract is just that-speculation. Its interesting to learn there was previous questioning of service levels or whatever elsewhere. Once, twice sure, that can happen but repeatedly, that does point to a trend of being difficult or very unlucky!!!
All that said, I hope the delivery/fitting went/goes well and that the OP could come back on here and publically recommend the company. That would be a fitting and fair way to close off.