Paedophilia = Friendship that crossed a line?

I am struggling to understand how in the 1990's a bishop could really believe this. It's not like it was the 1950's (obviously not an excuse for it happening then either) but is the man delusional, stupid or dangerous?

IT:
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It is risible for the Bishop of Clonfert John Kirby to expect people to believe that in the 1990s he saw the sexual abuse of a minor by a priest in his diocese “as a friendship that crossed a boundary line”. He then just moved the accused priest to another parish. He did so where a second similarly accused priest was concerned there, too.

It is beyond belief that anyone in Ireland would have thought, in the early 1990s or beforehand, that sexual abuse/interference with a child by an adult was anything other than wrong. That a bishop did not do so, particularly where a priest was concerned, belongs to the realms of fantasy.

That alone renders meaningless Bishop Kirby’s “if-I-knew-then-what-I-know-now” apology yesterday. It was merely repetition of an all-too-empty formula employed by senior Catholic Church figures caught in sticky situations and with which we have become mind-numbingly familiar.

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Pedophilia a friendship that crossed a line...words really fail me,its time to start locking these bishops up, they are unfit not only for the role they occupy but as members of the Human race.

Is the bishop still active in the church i.e. does he take part in confirmations etc?

dereko1969 said:

I am struggling to understand how in the 1990's a bishop could really believe this. It's not like it was the 1950's (obviously not an excuse for it happening then either) but is the man delusional, stupid or dangerous?

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I do not believe for a minute that the bishop in question really believed this. What I do find plausible is that saying 'I just thought it was friendship that crossed a line' is a way of taking no responsibility for the fact that a child was being abused and he knew about it. Perhaps if he thought it was just friendship crossing a line then it was ok that he did nothing about it to protect the child - in his delusional mind.

I don't believe any of the church hierarchy are delusional or stupid. Just dangerous.

Yet they hold a place of importantance in Irish society... Run our schools and indoctrinate our children....

WHY????

The catholic church is just like any other religious cult, the leaders of which use their power and influence to abuse their vulnerable followers.

Running the schools ensures a steady supply of brain-washed children and prohibiting contraception keeps the church's numbers up.

delgirl said:

Running the schools ensures a steady supply of brain-washed children and prohibiting contraception keeps the church's numbers up.

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So nobody in Ireland uses contraception?

delgirl said:

The catholic church is just like any other religious cult, the leaders of which use their power and influence to abuse their vulnerable followers.

Running the schools ensures a steady supply of brain-washed children and prohibiting contraception keeps the church's numbers up.

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You haven't been down to any schools in a whille then I take it, as for contraception, I don't think the churches views hold much weight on your average night out.

I heard the interviews on the news and was incredulous that someone so high up the hierarchy could be so unfeeling towards the little children these monsters abused and so dismissive of the laity that he seemed to have no shame in expecting listeners to the interview to believe the arrant nonsense he came out with. The man is a disgrace.

"Kicking Bishop Brennan Up the This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language" ah yes Ted if only we could kick all of them.

I don't buy the conspiracy theory bit about schools, brainwashing and ready source of kids to abuse. To be fair, the church established schools in their own parish communities on church land when no-one in central or local government had the will or where-with-all to do it. Fair play is good sport, that was a job that would never have been done except for a few go-ahead priests and their parish councils.

Our child goes to a school that is not run by the RC church. It is only starting to dawn on friends and family he will not be making communion.
Most of the reaction has been negative, which is strange because most of them don't see the inside of a church from one year to the next.
I just find it interesting the even though many people knock the RC church they still go along with the traditions it holds.

DrMoriarty said:

I don't believe any of the church hierarchy are delusional or stupid. Just dangerous.

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Absolutely agreed. For years we have underestimated the calculated and underhand measures taken by members of the church.

Shawady said:

Our child goes to a school that is not run by the RC church. It is only starting to dawn on friends and family he will not be making communion.
Most of the reaction has been negative, which is strange because most of them don't see the inside of a church from one year to the next.
I just find it interesting the even though many people knock the RC church they still go along with the traditions it holds.

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Heard a great expression lately "belonging but not believing" and another "culturally catholic". Most of us not part of another religion are, at a minimum, culturally catholic. We want baptism, communion, confirmation, wedding, funeral. All social/family occasions. Mass, confession etc are a bit "meh" (I'm more or less in this category as well in case anyone thinks I'm giving out).

Maybe its hypocrisy (though harmless), but I want my children to go through the motions of catholicism, give us a few days out, and who knows it might mean something big to them in the long run. I dont see it so much as brainwashing, maybe "innoculation" as the many many more dangerous religions out there. I also want a catholic funeral.

The more devoutely religious people are getting the hump about this a la cart attitude - yer man Archbishop (?) Martin in Dublin, in a newspaper article last year, more or less said that the non devout should hump off and stop wasting everyones time. I've personally heard pastoral council people saying the cultural catholic people shouldnt be given a baptism for their kids (and there was also talk about no funerals for them) - while this is obviously a minority and slightly extreme view it just shows the divergence in attitudes. I myself think we should leave the judging the almighty & not deny anyone access to the sacrements/rituals.

As a matter of interest - I presume there would be nothing to stop your child making their first communion, if they so wanted, albeit that it doesnt happen in their school? I also think we should move to Sunday school and break the link between school preparation for communtion & confirmation.

Betsy Og said:

I dont see it so much as brainwashing, maybe "innoculation" as the many many more dangerous religions out there.

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Interesting line of thought. I cant really see whats more dangerous than teaching people to believe in an all knowing all seeing supernatural sky god whose presence can never be ascertained and who frowns heavily on and sends you to be tortured for the rest of eternity of you have sex outside of marriage, are gay, use contraception, covet your neighbours wife or break any of the other rules that control your sex life!

truthseeker said:

Interesting line of thought. I cant really see whats more dangerous than teaching people to believe in an all knowing all seeing supernatural sky god whose presence can never be ascertained and who frowns heavily on and sends you to be tortured for the rest of eternity of you have sex outside of marriage, are gay, use contraception, covet your neighbours wife or break any of the other rules that control your sex life!

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You should be proud of this most enlightened statement, positively exuding warmth, respect and tolerance.

truthseeker said:

Interesting line of thought. I cant really see whats more dangerous than teaching people to believe in an all knowing all seeing supernatural sky god whose presence can never be ascertained and who frowns heavily on and sends you to be tortured for the rest of eternity of you have sex outside of marriage, are gay, use contraception, covet your neighbours wife or break any of the other rules that control your sex life!

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Hey, its all relative, the competitors might want you to join a commune, wife swap, give them all your money, convince you they are god, tell you the end of the world is coming and posion you in a cave. Christian religions in the modern world are, in general, a force for good - the "established religions" are less likely to do any of the things I listed above - just be careful with your kids around them (or any other adults for that matter!!!).

Learning about a forgiving Christ, the love of God, the 10 commandments, the hope of an afterlife (& sure a bit of fear of hell may be no harm), the virtue in doing good deeds, charity, believing in community, in humility, in forgiveness - thats all good stuff IMHO and if more of us took some heed of it there world might be a tiny bit better.

Just never check your brain at the door and use your own judgment (which would take care of issues like contraception). So I dont think a catholic upbringing, to "culturally catholic" parents (i.e. who can discern whats "for the birds" and dont burden their children with it), is a damaging scenario.

Betsy Og said:

Christian religions in the modern world are, in general, a force for good - the "established religions" are less likely to do any of the things I listed above - just be careful with your kids around them (or any other adults for that matter!!!).

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For teaching faith contrary to the teaching of the Church of Rome, history records the martyrdom of more than 100 million people.

Betsy Og said:

Learning about a forgiving Christ, the love of God, the 10 commandments, the hope of an afterlife (& sure a bit of fear of hell may be no harm), the virtue in doing good deeds, charity, believing in community, in humility, in forgiveness - thats all good stuff IMHO and if more of us took some heed of it there world might be a tiny bit better.

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The thing is you don't have to be a Christian / Catholic to be a good, decent human being with all of the above qualities.

I know lots of people who don't believe in the mumbo jumbo and rituals associated with organised religion and who are fantastic, honest, decent human beings. I also know so called devout christians and catholics who steal, lie, cheat and have statues of the Virgin Mary in every room of their home.

Millions of people around the world have been brainwashed with rosaries, scapulars, candles, incense, image worship, miracles, moving statues, solid blood of the saints that turns to liquid conveniently for processions each year, etc.

T McGibney said:

You should be proud of this most enlightened statement, positively exuding warmth, respect and tolerance.

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Did I say anything untrue? Did I say people shouldnt believe it?
Do you think its warm, respectful and tolerant to teach people that homosexuality is sinful?

mathepac said:

I heard the interviews on the news and was incredulous that someone so high up the hierarchy could be so unfeeling towards the little children these monsters abused and so dismissive of the laity that he seemed to have no shame in expecting listeners to the interview to believe the arrant nonsense he came out with. The man is a disgrace.

I don't buy the conspiracy theory bit about schools, brainwashing and ready source of kids to abuse.

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It is well known that some paedophiles choose careers such as teachers, sports coaches etc. to gain access to children. Priests are no different - the Catholic Church provides them with Authority, Secrecy and Protection!

Authority: Priests are powerful figures in their communities; in their parishioners’ minds they hold the keys to salvation. Priests are (or used to be) trusted implicitly. Catholic children are taught to respect and trust priests, giving them absolute power over the children in their care.

Secrecy: In the Catholic Church the principal path to forgiveness depends upon secrecy. The “seal of the confessional” means that anyone can get away with anything and still be forgiven by confessing to a priest in charge. And, most damning in my opinion, official church policy, until the lawsuits started, was to keep quiet about the paedophiles and to transfer sexual predators to new parishes without any warnings to their next potential victims.

Protection: When sexual abuse by clergy of, not only children, but also vulnerable adults, who were supposedly under their pastoral care, started to be reported to the Vatican; a prominent cardinal formulated the policy of suppressing the facts, bribing the victims (“settlements”) not to make reports of criminal activity, and ferrying the predators to new parishes whenever they were reported.

This man, Cardinal Ratzinger, is now the Pope.

delgirl said:

It is well known that some paedophiles choose careers such as teachers, sports coaches etc. to gain access to children. Priests are no different - the Catholic Church provides them with Authority, Secrecy and Protection!

Authority: Priests are powerful figures in their communities; in their parishioners’ minds they hold the keys to salvation. Priests are (or used to be) trusted implicitly. Catholic children are taught to respect and trust priests, giving them absolute power over the children in their care.


Secrecy: In the Catholic Church the principal path to forgiveness depends upon secrecy. The “seal of the confessional” means that anyone can get away with anything and still be forgiven by confessing to a priest in charge. And, most damning in my opinion, official church policy, until the lawsuits started, was to keep quiet about the paedophiles and to transfer sexual predators to new parishes without any warnings to their next potential victims.


Protection: When sexual abuse by clergy of, not only children, but also vulnerable adults, who were supposedly under their pastoral care, started to be reported to the Vatican; a prominent cardinal formulated the policy of suppressing the facts, bribing the victims (“settlements”) not to make reports of criminal activity, and ferrying the predators to new parishes whenever they were reported.



This man, Cardinal Ratzinger, is now the Pope.

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Authority:
No right minded person gives anyone absolute power over their child.

Secrecy:
It's not that simple, and to be forgiven you might have to own up to authorities, but either way do you think that someone capable of abusing a child stops to think about absolution?

Protection:
This is really the area that the church has to answer and may struggle to recover from if it ever is to last