Overwhelmed by size of Debt- Please advise

Finance1

New Member
Messages
2
HI,
The background is my husband liquidated 2 different companies about 7 years ago and from that came bank debt( from personal Guarantee ) and revenue debt. He then became a sole trader and more revenue debt followed. I am his wife , was a director in the companies , had no involvement and took no salary.I am a paye worker. All the revenue debt is in my name solely as i was the assessable spouse. I did ask him to change this to his name a number of years ago but he did not want anything flagging with the revenue.
For the last number of years i have struggled financially and mentally trying to keep paying this debt. Currently we owe approx 83k to revenue and 84k unsecured( in both names) to a bank. I am on a phased arrangment for the revenue debt for the next 10 years ( 700 month) and for the bank loan i am only currently paying less than half the agreed monthly amount. The bank have not contacted me yet re the reduced payment, There is also the 2018 revenue bill of 21k outstanding. Also with the revenue solicitor 8k outstanding.
I work full time and have 3 children under the age of 12. I received a redundancy about a year ago but this redundancy has funded a lot of everyday expense eg dental treatment for one of my children, house repairs, oil bills. All our savings amount to this ,25k.
My husband is now a Paye employee but has no pension at all ( age 52).
we have a mortgage of about 430k . This has always been paid as the DD comes out the day i get paid.

I would genuinely appreciate any advise as i am totally alone with all this debt. My husband will not talk about it , gets stressed when i mention it. I am very emotional and overwhelmed by the size of the debt and the burden of trying to pay everyone for the next 10 years. It is me who manages the finances or tries to. As you can appreciate it has put a huge strain on the marriage.

Can anyone help me re my options

Thanks
 

Saavy99

Frequent Poster
Messages
315
Finance 1, I'm very sorry to read your post and tremendous stress you are under. I can only advise you to reach out to MABS, they will be in a position to advise you further. Please look after yourself and your family,
 

TLO

Frequent Poster
Messages
241
Hi Finance1

As Saav99 says these situations are tremendously stressful. The good news is that people have been through even worse and come out the other side. More information is probably needed in order for posters to make suggestions. Suggest you use the below post as a template for information that is needed:


Just paste it into this thread and answer the questions..
 

Futurelookin

Frequent Poster
Messages
70
HI,
The background is my husband liquidated 2 different companies about 7 years ago and from that came bank debt( from personal Guarantee ) and revenue debt. He then became a sole trader and more revenue debt followed. I am his wife , was a director in the companies , had no involvement and took no salary.I am a paye worker. All the revenue debt is in my name solely as i was the assessable spouse. I did ask him to change this to his name a number of years ago but he did not want anything flagging with the revenue.
For the last number of years i have struggled financially and mentally trying to keep paying this debt. Currently we owe approx 83k to revenue and 84k unsecured( in both names) to a bank. I am on a phased arrangment for the revenue debt for the next 10 years ( 700 month) and for the bank loan i am only currently paying less than half the agreed monthly amount. The bank have not contacted me yet re the reduced payment, There is also the 2018 revenue bill of 21k outstanding. Also with the revenue solicitor 8k outstanding.
I work full time and have 3 children under the age of 12. I received a redundancy about a year ago but this redundancy has funded a lot of everyday expense eg dental treatment for one of my children, house repairs, oil bills. All our savings amount to this ,25k.
My husband is now a Paye employee but has no pension at all ( age 52).
we have a mortgage of about 430k . This has always been paid as the DD comes out the day i get paid.

I would genuinely appreciate any advise as i am totally alone with all this debt. My husband will not talk about it , gets stressed when i mention it. I am very emotional and overwhelmed by the size of the debt and the burden of trying to pay everyone for the next 10 years. It is me who manages the finances or tries to. As you can appreciate it has put a huge strain on the marriage.

Can anyone help me re my options

Thanks
Hello Finance 1.
What a horrible situation for you and especially to be essentially handling it alone without support or communication from your husband. There are options. Revenue debt is handled differently than other debt but with that caveat, it may be possible for your husband to declare bankruptcy and for you to buy out his half of the house. (I don't know if there is equity in the property)You should look at a Personal Insolvency arrangement as an alternative. Contact IMHO straight away (Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation). They'll give you free advice and assess your situation. You need to make the whole situation more manageable and not be simply kicking the can down the road. Once you have a clear plan and time line a lot of the pressure will lift. I've been through the process and it is life changing. Start with the IMHO and persevere.
Good luck.
 

Fidgety

Registered User
Messages
96
I too, am so sorry that you have to endure this stress and worry while trying to raise a family and live your life. Thankfully, there are options available to you both and in particular, as pointed out, MABS are very helpful in such circumstances. In addition, this forum is full of brilliant people who selflessly offer advice, encouragement and expertise on all manner of matters.

On a personal note, the reaction of your husband to this difficulty is not unusual,I have an Uncle who came within an inch of losing the family farm because he couldn’t handle the stress. He retreated from the world because he couldn’t cope and felt an undeserved sense of shame. It’s a very tough issue to deal with on top of the normalcy of life. You’ve done a great job keeping everything together and are to be admired.

This can be resolved and will be.

And remember, you are both dealing with a very stressful matter and need to keep going to find a resolution.
 

Mrs Vimes

Frequent Poster
Messages
934
My sympathies on your predicament. As others have suggested, MABS will be able to help you. I would also suggest a trip to the GP for both of you, it sounds like your husband is also very stressed but is dealing with it by not dealing with it and leaving it to you. This could be a sign of depression/anxiety. GP should be able to help.
 

Monbretia

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,714
Hate to be a bit of a downer but unless MABS have changed their rules they did not deal with any commercial debt, now worth a try but don't be disappointed if that is their rule, try them first and even if they can't help they may be able to point you in the right direction for another adivsor.
 

elcato

Moderator
Messages
3,346
You need to fill in the form as suggested by TLO above. That way some of the PIPs might be able to help. You say the bank debt is unsecured. I'd stop paying this straight away but be prepared to be bombarded with phone calls which should be answered by telling them to put everything in writing, and letters which may sound threatening but in due course that is all they are, just threats. Ring revenue and ask them for more time and explain your situation.
 

Fidgety

Registered User
Messages
96
Finance 1, hope you're doing alright. Please take TLO and elcato's advice and complete the template. This information will help others here suggest options. Great people with smart minds and good ideas post here. Help them to help you.
 

Jim Stafford

Frequent Poster
Messages
476
As other posters have suggested, MABS can be a useful first port of call. If MABS feel that you need to see a PIP (and I believe you will need to see a PIP) then they may give you a voucher of €500 + VAT to see a PIP under the Abhaile Scheme to obtain expert advice.

it is very unfortunate that the recent changes implemented to the Abhaile Scheme has seen the number of PIPs participating in the scheme being reduced from 71 PIPs as at 24 January 2020 to just 34 PIPs today. At a time when AIB and Bank of Ireland have flagged that they will now start selling more family home mortgages the Government should be encouraging more PIPs to join the scheme, and not discouraging them. The recent changes make the scheme even more unviable for many PIPs.

Jim Stafford
 

Finance1

New Member
Messages
2
Thank you very much for your replies.Yes I am going to contact a PIP and see what they suggest.

just in relation to dealing with the Revenue,I rang them when the tax bill came in. I am currently on a phased arrangement. After been through 3 different people i was told very abruptly that i was already on a phased arrangement and nothing could be done. I am not sure if people on this site have dealt with the revenue but they are the mos difficult and nasty people to deal with. When i was o the phone i broke down and tried to explain my story. I totally understand this debt is owned but they dont care. i previously sent a letter a couple of years ago explaining the level of stress i was under but nothing changed in their dealing with me.
if anyone has had revenue debt written down can you please let me know and did the case end up in the court. All the revenue debt is in my name and i find it very difficult as it was the decisions of my husband solely that has caused this to happen. i am a professional working fulll time but he made those decisions that has huge consequences for myself and my family.
 

seamus m

Frequent Poster
Messages
85
This mightn't be wisest advice but you can of course just stop paying revenue they will then proceed with sherrif who upon discovering little to take will seek judgement against you for said amount .I don't know where it goes from there I have similar amount against me from 6 years ago.
 

sadie

Frequent Poster
Messages
618
Sorry this has happened to you. You have done nothing wrong.
It is a burden enough being a mother of 3 children, working and keeping the whole show on the road. Trying to be Mammy to everyone and pretending everything is fine in front of the kids day in and day out. Having to tiptoe around very sensitive husband who gets stressed and then you are to blame for stressing him by wanting to talk about it. Meanwhile, who supports you and is mindful of your stress and the impact on you?
There is a very separate issue of the psychological burden on yourself. This is other part of Debt management.
I would suggest counselling for yourself. Have you an EAP employee assistance policy at work that provides counselling support? Otherwise, look for low cost services in your area, you can ask for a lower fee, whatever you can afford.
A MABS meeting, at the very least, would mean the issue is voiced aloud in front of a third party and your husband cannot avoid hearing that.
 

Shinynails

New Member
Messages
2
Finance1

My story has some similarity to yours in that my husband liquidated a company which left us with significant debt owed through a personal guarantee. Also have 3 kids but I left my job (with his full support) to care for them 6 months before his company went bust. I was completely in the dark and blindsided by what happened.

His finances were in a terrible state and he honestly thought he would get another break and I would never have to know.
But his house of cards came down and now I am faced with debt from a situation that I did not create. I had savings etc and that helped but ultimately we needed a PIP to negotiate for us. I can recommend him to you in dm if you want. He has been fantastic.

Regarding my husband, he has an unrealistic outlook on money it is impossible to have a constructive conversation around finances with him. I feel like a total fool that I did not see this coming and that I believed all his lies for years. The risks he took with the family finances have floored me and we end up arguing about it when ever it's brought up.

So what do I do.... I engaged with a PIP and that has been a godsend. I realise that I must now and forever oversee all our finances. We are struggling for sure And our lifestyle has completely changed but we have a plan and a solution now and that is a lifeline. There is a better solution for your situation too I promise you. Have you looked at www.backontrack.ie

Re our relationship; the level of betrayal is so hard to come to terms and very difficult. But we have 3 kids under 12 also and they are my priority. He's not a bad man or person by any means but he has made some very poor decisions and disregarded the impact they would have on me and the kids and I am struggling with that. We have lost a lot. So yes we should get professional help for the sake of our marriage at some stage.
But you can only do one thing at a time. Seek advice on the debt first. Make the calls, schedule appointments, invite your husband to be part of it and hopefully he'll take the advice. In the event he does not want to engage, fire on ahead yourself. Knowledge is power and I'm sure there is a better solution for you right now,

Dm me if you need to
 
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Fidgety

Registered User
Messages
96
Well done Shinynails. That took courage and guts to get out in front of the problem to try and resolve it. And you sound confident and determined, despite the difficulties, in getting it resolved properly.
 

RichInSpirit

Frequent Poster
Messages
855
Hi Finance1. Feel for your situation.
I ran a more or less failed business for years longer than I should have and ended up with huge debts including owing money to Revenue.
Working PAYE since for a number of years and very gradually getting back on track.
Finally cleared the Revenue Debt last year after various periods of paying them something, not paying them, dealing with their solicitors, ignoring their solicitors and so on.
Overpaying my highest interest bank loan at the moment and hope to clear that this year.
Then only 2 more loans to go. Still in 6 figure territory though! But the number of creditors is decreasing. And the future is beginning to look bright again!
Looked at bankruptcy at a stage but didn't go that route because of circumstances of other people close by at the time.

From your first post you come across to me as a brilliant manager and money manager as things stand and a very strong person.
I'd suggest that you do all the money management for your family. Get your husband to give you his pay packet and pay him a small allowance if he needs it.
If you pay big childcare costs at the moment it might even be more beneficial financially to get your husband to be a stay at home dad. Do school runs etc.
Micro manage your finances, transport and running a car (or cars) is one area where you could make savings. Food, clothes, lifestyle is another area. I heard a woman talking recently on the radio spending 20K less per annum by micro managing the money.
I think involve your children in being thrifty. It will give them a good financial education for their lives.
 

Leper

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,066
I've just read the posts by Finance1,Shinynails and RichinSpirit. To be honest I am devastated with what all of you must face after what's happened. I have no solutions. I have no doubt many are in this situation. The worst part for me is that the male of the species failed to come to grips with his spouse or in other words lived the lie to somebody with whom they should have been totally honest. For once, I don't know what to say.
 

Shinynails

New Member
Messages
2
I've just read the posts by Finance1,Shinynails and RichinSpirit. To be honest I am devastated with what all of you must face after what's happened. I have no solutions. I have no doubt many are in this situation. The worst part for me is that the male of the species failed to come to grips with his spouse or in other words lived the lie to somebody with whom they should have been totally honest. For once, I don't know what to say.
Yep it's awful. There is a lot of emotional upheaval. But once the shock dies down it's important to have an action plan and focus on what you can do.

Adressing the debt with professional guidance is a priority. There are options and no matter how bad the financial situation there is a solution.

Acceptance - accept your situation, the flaws in your partner - recognise what you cannot change and accept what is. That does not mean you are ok with it or agree.
Stress and anxiety are fuelled by wanting a situation to be different. So be aware of the narrative and self talk running through your mind and let that go.
We can only deal with the now and what is in front of us.

I am in awe of how well Finance1 has dealt with the amount of debt and unhelpful communication with revenue and agree with Richinspirit that she is an impressive money manager and strong person.
 
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Leper

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,066
The thrust of this topic has remained in my mid and I am a little confused. Three people (understatement) have suffered mainly through the efforts of their spouse running their respective business. I accept not all businesses will profit. But, there is a common denominator with the three spouses here - that is the "debt" to Inland Revenue.

I hear Revenue imposes penalties on arrears to be collected (@ 8% ?). My question is:- How can you pay tax on losses as is the case with the three people here? I know I am having a "Lt Columbo" moment but the thoughts are flitting through my mind.

With respect:-
(i) Has Revenue been over zealous in their collecting here? Are they entitled to all the money "owed?"
(ii) Did the company advisors fall down on the job?
(iii) Have I missed something? Am I opening a can of worms?
 
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