Over 8 years of non payment and no repossession

Delboy

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There's evidence of a significant increase in strategic default as it has become more clear that there is very little repercussions for falling behind on home loans. Go along to the repossession courts and see for yourself. There is not the same level of default for motor loans where repossession of the asset is easy and cheap. Even before I had my first job banks were trying to sell me loans and credit facilities, that was well before the tiger and credit was easy come by, so it's not like the banks just swung the doors open for a few years.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/out-before-the-end-of-the-spring-exmiss-ireland-and-restaurateur-husband-to-leave-home-as-fund-seeks-repossession-37815361.html
Restaurateur Ronan Ryan and his wife, former Miss Ireland Pamela Flood, have vowed to leave their home after a 'vulture fund' moved to repossess it.
Mr Ryan told the Irish Independent that they would be "out before the end of the spring".
The Circuit Civil Court heard yesterday that Mr Ryan had not paid anything off his €1.1m mortgage for more than eight years...
...Mr Ryan said he had bought the house in 2005 for more than €900,000.
He said the mortgage was combined with other borrowings from Bank of Scotland, leaving a total of some €1.1m on which the house was secured.
The court heard yesterday that Bank of Scotland Ireland Ltd had granted Mr Ryan a 34-year mortgage of €1,105,000 to be paid back in monthly instalments of €4,434.
The loan had fallen into arrears now amounting to €281,111 and the total debt outstanding to Tanager was stated to be €1,207,904....
...Mr Ryan told the Irish Independent he was concerned that if Tanager did not get back all the money it was owed by selling the house, it could continue to pursue him for the remainder.
Mr Ryan used to own restaurants including Town Bar & Grill and South, but was hit financially by the 2008 recession. He currently runs a contract catering business.
Ms Flood, a former host of 'Off The Rails' television series and several RTÉ shows, was to have presented a TV3 documentary series about older mothers, but this was shelved after Virgin Media took over the station.
8.5 yrs rent free in one of Dublin's nicest areas....nice work if you can get it!
 

Feemar5

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It’s no wonder bank of Scotland left - let’s be honest people who pay their mortgage on time are subsidizing those who don’t pay. We have to have repossessions to be fair to all.
 

Brendan Burgess

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This case was adjourned so that both sides could make legal submissions.

This adds insult to the injury

"Mr Ryan(the borrower) told the Irish Independent he was concerned that if Tanager did not get back all the money it was owed by selling the house, it could continue to pursue him for the remainder."

So he lives rent-free for over 8 years and expects not to be pursued for the shortfall.

Brendan
 

Delboy

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And he's working so there's money coming into the house. And McGuinness/Hall/Honohan/Doherty want to stop evictions!
 

SBarrett

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As with a lot of things in life, there are people who will abuse the system. While there are cases of people who are doing their best to pay their debts, there is a growing number of people who are playing the system.

The fact that 10 years after the recession, we still haven't sorted out the mortgage crises goes to show that the system is broken. From banks not being able to repossess, people living in properties rent free for 8 years to others who are trying to hang onto properties that they clearly can't afford.

I can't see a politician making it easier for a bank to repossess a house, it would be political suicide, even if it lead to reduced interest rates for all.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 

RedOnion

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Why would anyone actually pay their debts when you look at this case?

"...had given the American-owned Tanager bank an undertaking they and their children will have vacated the property by July 9 next.

In return the bank would undertake to limit the couple’s indebtedness to whatever it could recover from the sale of the property -- no legal costs, no repayment of €374,000 arrears they had built up since 2010 and no liability for the €1.25 million outstanding on the mortgage."


https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/restaurateur-ronan-ryan-and-exmiss-ireland-pamela-flood-wont-have-to-pay-any-of-1-2m-debt-on-dublin-home-37893072.html
 

cremeegg

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As with a lot of things in life, there are people who will abuse the system.
When the ways in which the system is open to abuse are exposed in the national newspapers, people take up the opportunities presented.

Rules to help people who get into difficulties with debt can be availed of by people who deliberately take on debt with no intention of repaying it.
 

noproblem

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Agree that this particular case makes people very angry. The law abiding person working extremely hard and trying his/her best to pay their way and then you have the wise guy/woman who has learned how to beat or abuse the system. Yes, I've read about this case for quite a while, different financial houses have had the loan by buying and selling it on, then the person borrowing gets married and this adds further complications to the loan, in between the Celtic tiger gets slaughtered and business's that were helping to pay the loan went belly up and the loan goes unpaid for almost 9 years and today we find out he'she get away Scot-Free. There's only so much one can say or write but it's as near to another scandal as you could get, but there was a situation created with vulture funds that has lead to all of this. Do I remember Brendan Burgess warning about it some time ago? But do the warnings get heeded?
 

cremeegg

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but there was a situation created with vulture funds that has lead to all of this. Do I remember Brendan Burgess warning about it some time ago?
Wha ?

What makes you think they would have paid if the debt had stayed with the original lender
 

noproblem

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Totally agree with you cremeegg, I never had a doubt at all, just made it easier for someone with that thought process to access escape routes.
 

Delboy

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8 years mortgage/rent free folks. All you need is a brass neck and some good solicitors who are willing to play the long game on your behalf.

Ireland....the best little country in the world in which to do business
 

cremeegg

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8 years mortgage/rent free folks. All you need is a brass neck and some good solicitors who are willing to play the long game on your behalf.
You have to think big though, I doubt this would work as well if the amount involved was €125k rather than €1.25m.

I imagine it also helps to be good looking and telegenic. Judges cannot resist a pretty face. See Mary Archer.

And above all you have to be totally committed. No point in doing this if you have any equity in the property.
 

noproblem

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Not to mention the wonderful education the young 'uns (their children) are getting.
 
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Palerider

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I have mediated between debtors and vultures, it is not pleasant, I have no interest in doing so ever again.

Some observations...

A. Where they have good security they hold out for full repayment.
B. They are very slow to engage with the legal process, it takes them years in most cases before they might go into Court.
C. Their business model is not working in Ireland, the legal system is cumbersome, slow and expensive, the protections for debtors in most cases such as this one allow procrastination.
D. The legal profession are the winners as are the Auctioneering houses especially those that specialise in distressed sales.

Still, this case surprised me and will frighten vultures away from this country, vultures are necessary to have a functioning banking system and this high profile case is counter productive to the needs of the country.
 
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Tebbit

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I feel like a fool to be paying my mortgage faithfully on a house that's not worth what I paid for it.
 

ClubMan

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I was absolutely gobsmacked at the outcome of this case today but maybe I'm just naive.
This sort of arm chancing seems to go on a lot judging by a lot of the repossession court reports posted here in the past.
As others have mentioned it does make one feel like a mug for assiduously paying one's debts over the years.
 
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