Online gambling addiction editorial in Irish Times

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Duke of Marmalade

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I have just read a ridiculous Editorial in the Irish Times. It begins by reminding us that the bookies always win. Why? Because when you bet a horse they have more horses running for them than you, I kid you not :confused:
It finishes by observing that gambling is on the same par as tobacco in terms of the damage it can do. This is totally ridiculous. Tobacco can maim and kill. Per se all that gambling can do is lose you money. Sure that can then have consequences but there is no comparison.
When I was a boy I used to play pinball games. It cost thruppence or something a play and for sure the house took all of my money as there were no cash prizes. Point I'm making is it was a service (entertainment) and I was prepared to pay for it. People should see gambling as an entertainment not as a breadwinning career.
I don't bother with the online casino games myself and I suppose they could be addictive. So I think I agree with curbs on advertising them or tricks to lure people into them. The alternative is for officially sponsored campaigns to highlight the dangers but in the end of the day we do not want a nanny state.
 
I get where you're coming from and in theory I'd agree - it's a matter of personal responsibility and we don't need an even more nannyish state.

But where do you draw the line? We regulate tobacco and alcohol fairly rigourously. We completely ban heroin and such like. If an adult can choose to gamble why can't they choose to use heroin? Or put it another way: where does gambling sit on a continuum from sugary foods, to alcohol, to tobacco, spamspamspam, cocaine, heroin etc.

There is evidence, both anecdotal and academic, that some individuals just can't handle gambling and - for them - it's as addicted be as, say, heroin. It can lead to financial ruin, a turn to crime to find the habit, family and relationship breakdown and even suicide.

I think an appropriate solution might be to create a civil law remedy whereby a gambling addict could sue the bookmaking companies to recover their losses. It would take the wind out of their sails and leave them strictly with the entertainment service aspect of gambling. A lot of detail would have to be worked out and there's the risk of driving it underground, but still.... And of course the bookmaking companies would scream to high heaven.

But, they know very well that they make most of their profits from the addicts. Just like drug dealers do too.
 
Baby boomer said:
Or put it another way: where does gambling sit on a continuum from sugary foods, to alcohol, to tobacco, spamspamspam, cocaine, heroin etc.
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The filter kicked in but it's not too hard to figure out what lies in the gap between legal drugs and hard drugs.
 
There was a fascinating programme on the Beeb a few weeks back about gambling addiction, how the betting companies earn 35% of their income from 1% of their customers, how the apps and the betting company behaviours are designed to encourage addicative behaviour and sadly, a lot about people who had a loved one commit suicide as a result of their addiction. And for some people, it can become an addiction.

I also know someone involved in underage GAA and he reckoned about 10% of the club u20 football team had a serious issue, simply from watching their behavior in the dressing room and listening to the type of their conversation. It is interesting as well that most addicts are male but I recall a RTE Radio discussion from a few years ago around how the understanding and management of risk is less developed in young and teenage males then in females.

Is it as dangerous as smoking?, at the minute, Id have to say no. But given the small numbers who gamble heavily (in comparison to the larger cohort who smoke), it is a serious issue that frankly needs a serious clamp down.
 
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Those are challenging thoughts @Baby boomer. IMHO society has a right and a duty to protect people from each other but not from themselves (it has a duty to inform folks of the dangers).
Take alcohol. No way should it be illegal to drink alcohol. Curbs on the supply? Possibly, legal closing times, for example.
Heroin. No way is this good for anyone (excepting clinical reasons). It should not be illegal to use heroin. It should be totally illegal to supply it.
Gambling. Gambling is a source of much mild diversion for many people, yours truly included. It is a source of misery for 1% who indulge, according to @Peanuts. No way should the supply of gambling facilities, online or otherwise, be illegal. Furthermore IMHO if drinks companies can advertise and promote their product then so too should gambling companies be able to do so. But I do think there should be curbs on targeting the vulnerable minority.
Tobacco. Tobacco is harmful for everyone. Ideally its supply should be banned. But by the time society wakened to this reality addiction had already gripped a section of the community. It would have been totally disproportionate to have an outright ban. Instead there are very heavy restrictions on its promotion and supply. If Sir Walter Raleigh were to arrive with this fresh idea today, given what we know, he would be immediately sent to the Tower.
 
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The ads need to be banned. They're everywhere and in your face.
My 2 eldest lads (both under 12 years of age) are bombarded with them every time they watch a match on TV. I listen to them talking and they're discussing the odds and how much money they could make.

It's gone way too far now and needs to be regulated
 
Delboy said:
The ads need to be banned. They're everywhere and in your face.
My 2 eldest lads (both under 12 years of age) are bombarded with them every time they watch a match on TV. I listen to them talking and they're discussing the odds and how much money they could make.

It's gone way too far now and needs to be regulated
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Do they hanker after a beer, watching all those ads? But I take your point.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
@Peanuts. No way should the supply of gambling facilities, online or otherwise, be illegal. Furthermore IMHO if drinks companies can advertise and promote their product then so too should gambling companies be able to do so. But I do think there should be curbs on targeting the vulnerable minority.
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I never said it should be illegal, I did say it should be clamped down on, and by that I mean restricted. Perhaps raise the legal age for a bet to 21 might be a start, by then people might be a little more mature. All VIP and other schemes should also be banned. If we can ban promotions in supermarkets for baby formula, we can do the same for gambling

Some of the stats here are scary. The one that really jumps out at me at the amount of children addicted
www.gamblingwithlives.org

Gambling with Lives | Homepage

We're a community of families bereaved by gambling-related suicide that provides support, raises awareness of gambling disorder's devastating effects and campaigns for change
www.gamblingwithlives.org www.gamblingwithlives.org
 
Peanuts20 said:
I never said it should be illegal, I did say it should be clamped down on, and by that I mean restricted. Perhaps raise the legal age for a bet to 21 might be a start, by then people might be a little more mature. All VIP and other schemes should also be banned. If we can ban promotions in supermarkets for baby formula, we can do the same for gambling

Some of the stats here are scary. The one that really jumps out at me at the amount of children addicted
www.gamblingwithlives.org

Gambling with Lives | Homepage

We're a community of families bereaved by gambling-related suicide that provides support, raises awareness of gambling disorder's devastating effects and campaigns for change
www.gamblingwithlives.org www.gamblingwithlives.org
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Well, that must be a very dubious statistic. Children killing themselves not because they have lost money per se but because they took the hump at losing.
 
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This is the opinion piece referenced in the OP, and this is the colour piece behind it.

We have the third highest per capita spend on gambling in the world. It's not hard to see from the gambling adverts on the TV how they target people on the lower end of the education scale. It's not just laddish sports, with bingo and other games targeting the ladies and loot boxes targeting the kids.

Certainly, we need to get the regulator up and running urgently, though the industry probably has vastly more resources available to it than the regulator will ever have. Just like the social media and gaming companies, they have the best of skills available to them to make the process addictive, to keep you coming back for a little bit more. I'm waiting for the Aaron Rogan book to come from the library, but I saw one article mentioning how they will throttle back on winning accounts, so if you are skillful or lucky enough to win consistently, you'll be restricted to smaller and smaller bets. There is far from a level playing field here.

Not sure it is 'nanny state' for the state to intervene to prevent ruthless businesses extracting money from those who don't really have spare funds, knowing that the state will be on the hook for health care, housing, welfare at the end of the day.
 
I visit the bookies nearly every day although perhaps laying a small bet or two in one of those days in ten. I don't have an online betting account. I see my visits as fun where I get a free read of the Racing Post and if you want the most goddawful coffee in the world it's to be had free in Paddy Powers. The coffee appears worse again when you see one of the staff taking a paper cup from the middle of the pile in case she'd catch some disease from customers. But, seriously, there is a bigger gambling problem in Ireland than most think. Some of the mugs who visit betting shops when they run out of money seem to look at what others are betting and of course are always on hand to give their losing advice. An example:- Recently I gambled €10.00 on a pop-up on one of the shops televisions on the next team to score in a televised match. I reckon many others accepted the bet nationwide as "No More Bets" appeared on the television screen within seconds. I collected my winnings almost immediately only to be surrounded by the unfortunate losing punters who wanted me to keep betting. These people will never learn unless somebody grabs them by the scruff of the neck and explain the rudiments of betting. Banning television ads won't help either. Neither will allowing betting shops to curtail their trading hours. Hey! - It's education, common sense and cop on only will work.

Somebody mentioned U21 GAA teams seriously involved in gambling; move that to U16 and you'd be nearer the truth.

Then there's the online betting where people are assured of privacy while they gamble away their house, career, marriage, friendships, family, respect etc. No Irish town was ever short of its bank official, public/civil servant involved in compulsive gambling and many losing their jobs along the way trying to find money to satisfy their habit. It's easy to get addicted to gambling, alcohol, drugs, sex, money etc. It's not so easy to shake the habit. Limiting Poker Games to .50c ain't the answer either. Sure as night follows day somebody will come up with banning the free coffee too. The answer is education and common sense. But, nobody has copped on to those.
 
I read recently about lads in bookies betting on animated races. This seemed awful sad to me, taking away the pretence that there is any skill or knowledge involved, and turning it into a purely random gamble. Where's the pleasure in it?
 
RetirementPlan said:
This is the opinion piece referenced in the OP, and this is the colour piece behind it.

We have the third highest per capita spend on gambling in the world. It's not hard to see from the gambling adverts on the TV how they target people on the lower end of the education scale. It's not just laddish sports, with bingo and other games targeting the ladies and loot boxes targeting the kids.

Certainly, we need to get the regulator up and running urgently, though the industry probably has vastly more resources available to it than the regulator will ever have. Just like the social media and gaming companies, they have the best of skills available to them to make the process addictive, to keep you coming back for a little bit more. I'm waiting for the Aaron Rogan book to come from the library, but I saw one article mentioning how they will throttle back on winning accounts, so if you are skillful or lucky enough to win consistently, you'll be restricted to smaller and smaller bets. There is far from a level playing field here.

Not sure it is 'nanny state' for the state to intervene to prevent ruthless businesses extracting money from those who don't really have spare funds, knowing that the state will be on the hook for health care, housing, welfare at the end of the day.
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I hadn't read the colour piece. I agree with some of it but not all. Take "loot boxes". As I understand it these are not gambling at all as there is no cash pay out. But the argument seems to be that it encourages a betting instinct even though the potential gains are not monetary. I am not sure about that at all. That sounds like real nannyism, similar to kids shouldn't be allowed toy guns.

Then they put the blame on sophisticated mathematicians. BS. The math is trivial. The "skills" involved are marketing and behavioural science.

But I do agree that online casino games should be banned. Possibly because I have no time for them myself. They can be addictive like One Arm Bandits and they have no skill whatsoever, or if a modest level of skill like Blackjack, the odds are still mathematically tilted against the punter even if playing with maximum skill. There used to be a law that there cannot be public betting games which are totally devoid of skill. We still see a legacy of that law in media lotteries which are accompanied by a tie breaker "skill test" like "What is the capital of France, is it 1. Dublin 2. Paris or 3. London". Virtual racing should similarly be banned as it has no pretence to a skill factor.
 
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I’m with the regulate and control advertising people. I’ve no problem with gambling but I do have a problem with how ubiquitous and insidious it is. Gambling companies target the vulnerable in the same way social media companies do. In many ways they have the same business model. They thrive by nurturing addiction.
 
The Compulsive Gambler is always only one win away from that great win that will have him kick the cursive habit. That's the thought, but it is not the truth. It is not confined to males either. Neither is it confined to the poor. The warning signs are there to recognise the compulsive gambler (i) Falling behind on mortgage/loan repayments (ii) Mood Swings (iii) Secretive exits from home and silent telephone calls/texts/online activity (iv) Theft. It isn't difficult to spot, but it is difficult to get the compulsive gambler to admit the problem.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
We still see a legacy of that law in media lotteries which are accompanied by a tie breaker "skill test" like "What is the capital of France, is it 1. Dublin 2. Paris or 3. London".
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I thought that this practice was designed to boost numbers of calls to premium-rate entry phonelines.
 
Have you heard of the Christmas raffle?
€25 a ticket.
Payout 38.5%.
500,000 tickets expected to be sold.
Makes the Lotto look generous.
Promoted as an ideal Christmas present.
 
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