oil licences given away by government again

Irish exploration successes lie somewhere in the 1 in 50 range, compared with much more favourable odds elsewhere.

IMHO, the government needs to keep these favourable terms for the oil companies to encourage exploration. If substantial finds are made and the Irish sector becomes more attractive, the government can afford to ask for a greater slice of the cake in subsequent licencing rounds on other blocks.

People talking about "doing a Chavez" need to understand the industry a little better. We are not talking about little 500 m wells on land. Deepwater offshore fields in the North Atlantic require a lot of money, experience and technology. The Mexicans, who kicked out the oil companies many years ago, cannot develop their own deepwater resources, despite Pemex's huge experience on land and in shallow water. They are hotly tipped to ask the majors to come back precisely for this reason.

If I was an oil company, the whole Rossport debacle would put me off coming here no matter how good the financial terms were....
 
room305 said:
The quotations around exploration imply you think it is of dubious merit. Are you suggesting that the oil and gas exploration companies know exactly where the oil and gas is located but faff about spending millions looking in other areas as part of an overall tax reduction strategy?
Click to expand...

No,i'm not saying they know where the gas is but sister companies charge huge sums over and above what it actually costs to the parent company for services they provide,that's the way these things work.

The was an excellent programme on channel4 the other night on public private partnerships and how millions of british taxpayer's pounds were being funneled between shelf companies for providing little or no services.
 
The Rossport debacle is entirely of Shells own making , putting odourless high pressure gas pipes near peoples houses, they would not do that in Holland or the US .

The real lesson is that Dempsey kicked the thing out to an old trade unionist to sort out ...ie The government will do nothing for you or against you and that uncertainty is a certainty .

They can live with that, if they find anything decent we can play hardball in the next licencing round .
 
There are two extreme positions that can be taken regarding the operation of oil companies in this country.

1. Do a Hugo Chavez and nationalise oil exploration
2. Give away exploration licences for nothing + allow the oil company to run off with the citizens' national resources.

Both of this situations are just as extreme in my opinion - the thing about extremism is that when the left and the right wrap around far enough, they become the same thing.

A balance needs to be achieved that satisfies:

- the fair return to the taxpayer for the sale of a valuable natural resource
- the promotion business activity
- the environmental impact associated with oil extraction/refining
- strategic government authority over natural resources

As was said above: "securing a vital natural resource for the good of the country" is utter rubbish, as we live in an open-market scenario. The open market works both ways: If Shell et. al. wish to drill for oil in Ireland, then they must pay the fair, open market price.

The policy of the present government with regards oil exploration is a joke. If it wasn't utter incompetence in the Department of Marine and Natural Resources, then the only other way such a farce could have arisen is by corruption.
 
thewatcher said:
No,i'm not saying they know where the gas is but sister companies charge huge sums over and above what it actually costs to the parent company for services they provide,that's the way these things work.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised. They pay 0% royalties and only 12.5% corporate tax on profits. I don't see a huge incentive there for complicated tax evasion/avoidance strategies.

Also, how is this related to public-private partnerships? The main criticism of these in the UK is that they cost more and are no more efficient than doing things publicly. However, it allows the government to stick to its own rule of not letting debt exceed 40% of GDP as PFI's are "off balance sheet" expenses. Accounting rules may be changing on that however.
 
room305 said:
I'd be surprised. They pay 0% royalties and only 12.5% corporate tax on profits. I don't see a huge incentive there for complicated tax evasion/avoidance strategies.

Also, how is this related to public-private partnerships? The main criticism of these in the UK is that they cost more and are no more efficient than doing things publicly. However, it allows the government to stick to its own rule of not letting debt exceed 40% of GDP as PFI's are "off balance sheet" expenses. Accounting rules may be changing on that however.
Click to expand...

Agreed,when your giving the rights away for practically nothing there's little incentive for tax avoidance strategies.
 
thewatcher said:
They are just the two options you have presented,i would contend the people could/should get a lot more than 20% of the profits after millions and millions of tax write off's for "exploration".Have you never run a small business,they are always advised to declare as little profit as possible,once again the politicans have robbed the people of this country !.
Click to expand...
(Originally Posted by ubiquitous) "By whom, exactly?"
thewatcher said:
Accountants,i'm not talking anything illegal now.
Click to expand...

What a load of codswallop! How on earth do you think businesses can attract investment or loan facilities if they "declare as little profit as possible"? Contrary to what you say, publicly quoted companies (including exploration companies) are continually under pressure to deliver high profits to underpin their share prices. Indeed at least one major oil company has gotten into trouble in recent years for allegedly overstating declared profits, based on overvaluing the level of their oil reserves.
 
You talk about exploration companies having "millions of tax write off's", then a few minutes later you say that "there's little incentive for tax avoidance strategies".

I'm puzzled!
 
ubiquitous said:
(Originally Posted by ubiquitous) "By whom, exactly?"


What a load of codswallop! How on earth do you think businesses can attract investment or loan facilities if they "declare as little profit as possible"? Contrary to what you say, publicly quoted companies (including exploration companies) are continually under pressure to deliver high profits to underpin their share prices. Indeed at least one major oil company has gotten into trouble in recent years for allegedly overstating declared profits, based on overvaluing the level of their oil reserves.
Click to expand...

I said a small business i never mentioned publicly quoted companies,oil companies are made up of loads of different companies the drilling/mining side charges the Irish arm for its services,this shows up as a profit elsewhere in the Group but is not subject to the 20%,that's all i'm saying.
 
ubiquitous said:
You talk about exploration companies having "millions of tax write off's", then a few minutes later you say that "there's little incentive for tax avoidance strategies".

I'm puzzled!
Click to expand...

Yes when you give the stuff away,if say the deal was 50/50 on the profits then there would be an incentive for tax avoidance.

It's no different to IRS starting to look at how the american multinationals are funneling money through their irish bases.
 
Does anybody REALLY know how much oil/gas is out there beside us? Is it all speculation or is there actual proof of quantities? I saw earlier in this post $50 billion - is that a lot in oil terms world wide or is this literaly, a splash in the ocean?
 
Tony O Reilly , late of [broken link removed] is involved with these prospects here

[broken link removed]

These are 'allegedly' where there is a scad of oil and gas, 140 miles out from the tip of Kerry in deep water :D and even further from a harbour or an oil refinery ..... but nobody has proved anything yet.

After the last Atlantic Resources frenzy in 1983/1984 I feel I'll give this one a miss you know !
 
This is the most secretive government we have ever had. The most important issues facing this country's future are not debated or discussed by this government. The way this was information was just put on a govenment website at 6am on a saturday morning speaks volumes. They have a total disdain for democracy. The quality of debates in the dail is terrible, the taoiseach and top ministers rarely attend. At least the debates in the house of commons are full blooded. The government has more in common with George Bush and the neo cons where debate was also stifled. Have you noticed how government ministers avoid as much as they can appearing on prime time. Last night wind power and its shortfalls were being debated. No government minister was on hand to defend it even though it is a key plank of the governments future energy policy. When the killings and over crowding in mountjoy were being debated last week on the show, the department of justice declined to take part. In fairness to RTE they have beefed up their current affairs and are debating issues which are of vital importance.
 
What has that bloody polemic got to do with OIL,

The worst gov't I ever saw was the crypto fascist FG/Labour 1973-1077 govt with that bloody tullymander too , awful things they were. :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top