no rights self employed

[Firefly]

Your figures are not Kerak's figures. He specifically refers to '80% of invoiced hours'. Invoiced hours is a gross figure, not a net figure. He's self-employed, and he's paying 20% of his income in taxes, and keeping (or 'retaining') the other 80%.

He can't be keeping or incurring 80% of income as he is incurring expenses - this is money gone. He's providing tax based on income and ignoring his expenses...that's just providing misleading information.

 

[DB74]

Your figures are not Kerak's figures. He specifically refers to '80% of invoiced hours'. Invoiced hours is a gross figure, not a net figure. He's self-employed, and he's paying 20% of his income in taxes, and keeping (or 'retaining') the other 80%.

Invoiced hours are indeed a Gross figure and it is almost impossible to retain 80% of this figure AFTER all expenses and taxes are paid, as my example has shown

Even if someone's expenses equate to 15% of their Gross, their profit is then 85% of their Gross and their tax would be minimum 20% of this 85% profit figure.

So for every €100 invoiced, €15 would be spent on expenses and €17 would be spent on taxes leaving the contractor with just €68 from his invoiced amount of €100

This €68 retained equates to 68% of their invoiced figure and nowhere near the 80% claimed by Karak.

 

[Firefly]

Invoiced hours are indeed a Gross figure and it is almost impossible to retain 80% of this figure AFTER all expenses and taxes are paid, as my example has shown

Even if someone's expenses equate to 15% of their Gross, their profit is then 85% of their Gross and their tax would be minimum 20% of this 85% profit figure.

So for every €100 invoiced, €15 would be spent on expenses and €17 would be spent on taxes leaving the contractor with just €68 from his invoiced amount of €100

This €68 retained equates to 68% of their invoiced figure and nowhere near the 80% claimed by Karak.

That is after corporation tax. Anything the contract takes home is subject to PAYE then. Of course they can leave the money in the company but there are now rules on limits here for this. In any case it will be taxable eventually anyway.

 

[DB74]

The example I'm using is for a sole trader, not a limited company.

 

[orka]

That linked single post has really dragged this topic off thread and I don't think it even does what the poster intended. It's very obvious from reading the whole thread that the post was intended to give information on what expenses could be legitimately offset - and it seems obvious to me that he meant 80% was the contractors gross income on which tax etc. would be paid - nowhere in the thread is there a nudge nudge wink wink, here's how to fudge your taxes guide. So there's about 20 wasted posts here gumming up the thread for what honestly looks like trolling.

 

[fluffybuffy]

Thank you, I was beging to think nobody got it, selfemployed peoply and there familys are currently been penalized for trying to have made it for themselfs, just equal rights nothing more nothing less.

 

[SarahMc]

First off, can you learn how to spell.....

Castle, your spelling, and punctuation leave a lot to be desired. If you really want to comment on the literacy level of others, ensure your own is exemplary.

 

[WaterSprite]

This doesn't quite fit with the reality of self-employed people boasting about keeping 80% of their income.

I don't think that his post reflects an actual "reality", rather an ill-informed view of the tax system as it applies to the self-employed. Yes, in reality, that chap appeared to be boasting, but his story is just one, and a fairly dodgy looking one at that.

You're right, of course. They are generally keeping their heads down so as not to draw attention to how they pay less tax than employees. I'm sure Kerak will get booted out of the select club for letting the cat out of the bag.

Self employed people do pay more taxes (percentage-wise and including all the extras like PRSI) than PAYE workers. We used to have to pay far more PRSI (before the ceiling for PAYE was lifted). We don't get PAYE allowance. No paid holidays, which in Ireland amounts to over one working month paid. Legitimate expenses are allowed but they are expenses that are incurred *because* we are self-employed. For e.g. working from home means larger electricity bills. The only actual advantage to being self-employed is that we don't have to pay tax month-to-month, but can pay it all in a lump sum in November (via ROS) so there's a benefit of interest as it (slowly) accrues for those 11 months. That's it.

The benefit of the PAYE allowance and the much more extensive social welfare benefits available to PAYE workers vastly outweighs any perceived advantage to being self-employed.

I'm actually ok with all of that, but I do think it's terribly unfair that there is such a range of benefits closed to the self-employed that are open to PAYE workers, not based on their own PRSI contributions (which are more or less equal now, although self-employed still pay slightly more) but based on the employer contributions, which is the missing link. It's particularly unfair to those self-employed who themselves employed others, where those others are now eligible for JA, but not the actual person who ran the business.

As far as those who say they claim the kitchen sink and all against expenses, this is not a reason to say that self employed pay less tax; it's simply that those people are tax evaders. Being self-employed (like all self-assessment taxes) makes it easier to evade tax, but that's a completely different thing to measuring a tax compliant self employed person to a PAYE worker.

Complainer, I've a lot of respect for you on here, but what you'd said is not correct and it's a pervasive myth that needs to be debunked. If there is to be a war, it should be a war between those who are tax-compliant (or are at least trying their damnedest to be so) and those who aren't.

Sprite

 

[queenlex]

The self-employed person is entitled to nothing. Granted they can apply for JSA which is means tested but why should the employee get JSB (non-means tested) when the employer / self-employed gets nothing.

Can I ask, sorry for butting in as it were, but I'd like to possibly follow a dream and wondering if the worst was to happen and I set up a company and it failed... How much would I get in JSA (given I have no property etc, i.e. dont own a house, etc.) to live on while I looked for a new job approximately could you basically starve to death or end up homeless etc. is what I want to know basically bc I hate my job and can see it possibly affecting my health if I do it for any length of time.

Many thanks for any response,

Q

 

[psca]

Can you not pay Class A stamps? This is a question as i am reading conflicting posts.