"No one wants an election!"

The adversarial position is how the whole system works. It's like asking a dog not to bark. I don't suppose they thought they were retained to tickle MM. The presiding judge, or whoever was adjudicating, could always say that wasn't cricket. IMO it's a legitimate question - its about his motivation in the wake of the smear campaign - it's not inferring he was a kiddie fiddler. It's like asking Gerry Conlon (before his death..) if being wrongly imprisoned for 15 years turned him against the British state - you're not inferring he planted a bomb in a pub in Guildford...

Why Francie couldn't come out with a version of that I dont know - due to the beatification process I guess. I've no time for incompetence, misleading or what not thereafter, so there's the crime in my view.

Mick Wallace is just you're average pub stool cynic, the vox pop "they're all a shower, never done nuttin for me" type. I'm all for calling out incompetence, but this country just loves hurling from the ditch, I wouldn't fancy doing the job so I don't presume its easy.
 
Ah, Betsy Og,

You've got me shouting TWO LEGS BAD again.

Let's just say, I think your analysis is deeply flawed.
 
As you have undoubtedly noted I am with you on your MM analysis.

Brexit I am not so sure (possibly I should be making this point in another thread.) The whole country is now up to high doh that now at last we can get our revenge for those 800 years. (Sean O'Rourke mentioned that even the German papers are running with this line.) Leo's macho stance initially scratched by rebel surface and I was all for it. But upon mature refection the UK are not going to give us what the country is baying for. In that circumstance Ireland is going to need really strong leadership, someone who can compromise, a Michael Collins. Alas, Leo has become a lame duck. If he comes back with less than a total humiliation of the Brits his political future will be even more bleak than it was for the ill fated MC.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Regrettably I am no longer in a position to make that statement. She has gone and dun sumfin' wrong. She resigned
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Well it takes all sorts or as they say there's nowt so strange as folk....

You seem to wish to continue the farce (....now there's a big surprise) that she did nothing wrong when pretty much everyone knows the level of wrong-doing needed to resign in Irish politics is a high, high hurdle. Ultimately, it boils down to each individual's view of acceptable standards - it seems ours are unaligned.

I do know that you will not admit you called this one wrong - but it would remiss of me not to remind you of this, yet again. By nature, I'm an optimist and live in hope. God is good. Allah too. Remember TWO LEGS BAD, TWO LEGS MAXIMA BAD....
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Agree with you there. Compared to Enda Kenny's verbatim record of a meeting he never had, the memory slip and the follow up cover up are small beer.
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I think our standards in relation to what constitutes acceptable behaviour differ. There's nowt so strange as folk....

However, whilst I disapprove of your standards (or sub-standards if it be your will), I would defend your right to express them by writing a strongly worded e-mail.

DM
 
DM there is a current push against the (ab)use of emotis
 
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I've no interest in revenge for 800 years, I don't even want to give Britain a bloody nose, I just don't want them to mess up this island any further because they are uninterested and unmotivated to take the issue seriously. Leo, I think, has gotten their attention,and the EU's attention - initial result. We still need to wield the veto, I don't know why people are squeamish about that - I'd consider it pretty much treasonous if he did not fight tooth and nail for the best interests of this country.

I don't buy (literally or otherwise) the Sun's analysis that Ireland is being mischievous - I feel sorry for the British people, sold an absolute pup on Brexit, outvoted by those largely unaffected (the wrinklies), abandoned to the vagaries of the hardliners of the Tory party who want hard brexit - for largely jingoistic reasons it seems. I think the final deal has to go a vote in the Commons/Lords, that will be interesting. I'd put the house on it that the referendum result would be reversed if the deal were to go to a public vote - given the shambles that it has been shown to be. I despair at the DUP stance. If I was Theresa May I would leave it to the Breixteers, why she is agreeing to take all the blame while they sharpen their knives for her is beyond me - it's gotten so bad I'm feeling sympathy for her (not my default position I can assure you...).

I think if Leo does ok on the Brexit stuff then the Francie stuff will be forgotten, ok it hasn't been his best week and he has lost a bit of face but I'm sure he can get over that, he is a politician after all, thin skins should not apply.
 
With respect Young Betsy, you seem to be unfamiliar with Murray's law which provides that the longer the Duke is involved in any thread (i.e. irrespective of its theme), the probability of his mentioning at least one of the following (the IRA, Sinners, UK or Britain) approaches 1.


DM
 
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I think the Brits will be fine. I think Irish farmers, French winemakers and Spanish vegetable growers should be more worried.

And I have to take issue with this objection to the votes of older people. These were the people who voted in 1975 to take Britian into the EEC. Do they not have the right now to change their minds?
It seems a bizarre and dangerous argument to make. By that logic, Ireland should ban the votes of over 65s in constitutional referenda.
 
odyssey06 said:
And I have to take issue with this objection to the votes of older people. These were the people who voted in 1975 By that logic, Ireland should ban the votes of over 65s in constitutional referenda.
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Well they are the generation who was in charge of the country during the boom and bust. They are the generation who have sold their children and grandchildren into penury in order to maintain pensions which they haven't earned. They are the generation who were the beneficiaries of the greatest wealth transfer in the history of the State from young to old in the form of the housing bubble. They are, by far, the worst generation this country has ever produced; the most selfish, the most incompetent and the most destructive. The only thing they excel in is self-aggrandising delusion. Why on earth should they get to screw things up again?
 

Why should anyone? I didn't realise that democracy necessitated disenfranchising entire generations...
 
Crikey Purple,

Do I need to get working on Murray's second law?


DM
 
The elders didn't have any 'skin in the game', so it was unfortunate that they made a decision that will negatively impact those that do have skin in the game. Thats all.
 
Dan I am never one to moralise to our fallen brethren or was that a gambit?
On Brexit the mood music is changing in a direction that I hadn't expected. Theresa has significantly upped the offer on the divorce bill and there are positive vibes from Brussels and Nigel has gone ballistic. Seems like Theresa has bigger cojones that some were giving her credit for.

According to the IT Irish/British/EU officials are working feverishly on a form of wording that will let Leo off the hook. I can't see now how he could feasibly play the veto card. There is a growing Brexiteer backlash against Ireland's position. We have to be very careful here. Like it or not the Brexiteers are in the UK ascendancy; having Alistair Campbell as our friend is not going to do us much good.
 
Betsy Og said:
The elders didn't have any 'skin in the game', so it was unfortunate that they made a decision that will negatively impact those that do have skin in the game. Thats all.
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If you want to blame anyone in this situation, blame the young people who couldn't be bothered to go out and vote in the referendum. The majority of under 30 said they were opposed to leaving, but they didn't bother registering. If you look at a graph by age of those in favour of leaving, and the percentage that bothered to vote, it's an almost exact match.
 
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