No kids allowed to play on common area,is this normal?

[thedaras]

The maintenance man better check the planning permission and see what category the open space falls under.
If as I suspect it is Public Open Space, it seem entirely appropriate that children should play there.
However in these past ten or fifteen "monied" years, a certain amount of materialism and snobbery seems to have entered Irish society.
In some circles, having children seems to be like having a large German car - just something you accrete to increase your social standing.
Its the old "seen but not heard" attitude to the child, which is a shame - don't let the view of people like that limit your friend's child in his formative years.
I agree with the "supervised" play position because in shared surface parking and recreational areas it can be all too easy to miss a small child when a car is reversing for example.
Vehicular hazard is exacerbated by the fact that few if any Public Open Spaces are enclosed by railings or fences, things that used to be de rigeur in housing developments before the 20th century.
Mind you, the railings were originally intended to limit access by the poor and were not there increase a child's safety per se.

You know what ,,I really enjoyed reading that post.very well put and very interesting...
I just feel so sorry for her,esp now with the sun shining and no back garden and the kid looking out at the green today .she wouldnt bring him onto the green today as shes a compliant type.its sad to think that this kind of rule can( but im not sure if its a real rule at all),be enforced.Thats why Im on here trying to get a definitive answer or see has anyone had a similar issue.
Thanks

 

[extopia]

The "maintenance man" probably has no authority. And in fact, he has a vested interest in keeping common areas used as little as possible, keeping maintenance to a minimum. Just ignore him.

 

[shesells]

It wasnt the child that was the problem,and he was with his mother playing a game,it was, according to the maintenence man the fact that no children are allowed on the green.ie; I dont think it was a personal thing towards the mother or the child rather just a rule..for all.

She has rented the house through a letting agency,its not a council estate .
I do know there is a management company who do the maintenence etc.its a big place with one two and three bedroomed houses some have back gardens.
The guy next door to her owns his house and also has a child and he has said he never heard anything about not allowing kids to play on the green.

She said the guy came up to her and said there were complaints and that she wasnt to be on the green with her child.
She is young and has only been living there a week,so unless as you say it doesnt make sense,maybe the maintenence guy is a bit strange? or bullying her?
She was in contact with the letting agency and they say to ignore him,but its a bit much having someone say you cant do something and then ignore it,shes not the type to challange authority.
BTW; could it happen that it is correct that kids are not allowed play on a green(with their parents)
Should she be told who complained? and the nature of the complaint\?

First thing I would do is get in contact with the management agents for the development to suss out what the definitive position is. Only then can she know whether this is a rule or not.

As for the basis of a rule, like I say we have rules about supervision, not about where kids can play. The only time I can see us changing that is if we had to lay fresh grass/seed and leave it time to establish.

 

[Bronte]

Unsupervised children at play is a big no-no for insurance, safety and preservation reasons but I don't see why a supervised child would be a problem.

.

Is this where we are at as a society? We should wrap them up in cotton wool, insure them for every eventuality and not allow them to play in case they damage a plant.

 

[shesells]

I said safety and insurance before preservation! I've seen kids fall out of trees, had a huge dent in my car door from kids pushing bikes through parked cars and leaning against the car door, had several near misses with little kids running out into the road between cars, and over €1000 of damage was done to plants here last year. Not to mention the grass dug up by bikes being ridden across wet grass! Problem is these kids are usually tenants so their parents don't have to worry about increased management fees to fix it all!

And so we ask parents to supervise their children at play. What's so wrong in that!

 

[mro]

the maintenence man said they had recieved complaints ,saying children were not allowed on the green.

Just a thought, but if she has just moved in, maybe the complaints were because people didnt recognise her and know she lived in the estate and the maintenance man may have just said that to her to discourage her from being there......Personally i think it is awful if kids cant play outside their own house with their parents (and i have no kids) .

 

[Yorrick]

In every complex there are people who were never children. When they were born they were 45.
Don't pay any attention to these whingers and let the kid play

 

[Bronte]

I said safety and insurance before preservation! I've seen kids fall out of trees, had a huge dent in my car door from kids pushing bikes through parked cars and leaning against the car door, had several near misses with little kids running out into the road between cars, and over €1000 of damage was done to plants here last year. !

Well if the planners allowed estates that were only planned properly there wouldn't be half the problems. I can understand parents supervising younger children but older children need to be able to run free and fall out of a few trees too. I have a tall climbing frame instead of a tree specifically so my kids can climb. They need to learn this skill and one day one of them is going to fall but that's life.

 

[onq]

<snip>
The guy next door to her owns his house and also has a child and he has said he never heard anything about not allowing kids to play on the green.
<snip>
She was in contact with the letting agency and they say to ignore him
<snip>
Should she be told who complained? and the nature of the complaint\?

She may have spoken with the wrong people.
Maintenance men may be simply trying to prevent "damage" to the planted area - some of them take pride in their work, some of them simply don't want to do any more than they have to.
Letting agents will not become involved unless they absolutely have to.
The planner can confirm the status of the open space in the scheme.
The management company can confirm if they have put in place a "no kids playing policy".
Your friend should also look around and see if there is a designated kids play area in the plans for the scheme and check and see if its been installed.

HTH



onq

 

[shesells]

Again I say, check with the management agent - they can clarify the official position.

 

[John Rambo]

ONQ is probably correct...there's little point in speaking to "the help" in respect of an issue such as this. Speak to the management company. And if you don't get an answer your happy with, raise the matter at the AGM. As someone who lives in a gated community (and doesn't have kids) I prefer not to see kids playing in among cars etc. But if they want to play on the communal green then they should be allowed to do so. In this era of Playstation 3's and clinically obese kids we should be encouraging them to play outside. In fact, without meaning to sound like an oul fella, I remember the good old days when older guys living in the neighbourhood used to join in with our rugby/football games as the sun went down and my Mum demanded I come back in! Good times...

 

[shesells]

John Rambo you make two errors in your post.

1 - she needs to check with the management agent. These are the people responsible for the day to day running of the dvelopment.

2 - as a tenant she has no right to attend the AGM. Only owners are entitled to do so. She can request her landlord raises it but she herself is not entitled to attend as a resident.

 

[John Rambo]

John Rambo you make two errors in your post.

1 - she needs to check with the management agent. These are the people responsible for the day to day running of the dvelopment.

2 - as a tenant she has no right to attend the AGM. Only owners are entitled to do so. She can request her landlord raises it but she herself is not entitled to attend as a resident.

I think you're being a tad pedantic. As Treasurer on our Residents Committee I work closely with the management agent so I'm familiar with the distinction. If someone wants to "speak to the management company", they speak to the management agent.

Similarly, I can't speak for other developments but nobody is asked to produce the deeds to their property at our AGM...I doubt there's anything stopping the OP from attending the AGM and raising a query in respect of this issue.

 

[MandaC]

ONQ is probably correct...there's little point in speaking to "the help" in respect of an issue such as this. Speak to the management company. And if you don't get an answer your happy with, raise the matter at the AGM. As someone who lives in a gated community (and doesn't have kids) I prefer not to see kids playing in among cars etc. But if they want to play on the communal green then they should be allowed to do so. In this era of Playstation 3's and clinically obese kids we should be encouraging them to play outside. In fact, without meaning to sound like an oul fella, I remember the good old days when older guys living in the neighbourhood used to join in with our rugby/football games as the sun went down and my Mum demanded I come back in! Good times...

Agree that I hate seeing kids running about through car parks.

Ironically I saw this yesterday in my mams. Went there about 9.30 and saw two of the older ex-residents (now visiting their parents) play football with their children and the new children within the Estate. It was like a kid fest, I think they even came from the estate across the road because the "big boys" were out and they were running their hearts out trying to impress the adults, who were in goal and coaching the kids. My mam said they had been running around out there for 3 hours. I'd say they slept like logs. Memories indeed......reminded me what a great area I grew up in.

 

[shesells]

I think you're being a tad pedantic. As Treasurer on our Residents Committee I work closely with the management agent so I'm familiar with the distinction. If someone wants to "speak to the management company", they speak to the management agent.

Similarly, I can't speak for other developments but nobody is asked to produce the deeds to their property at our AGM...I doubt there's anything stopping the OP from attending the AGM and raising a query in respect of this issue.

It's not about being pedantic it's about being accurate. One of the biggest problems with managed developments is that so many people don't understand the difference between the company and the agent.

As for the AGM. Only registered members or their proxies are permitted to attend, That's basic company law. We do check at our AGM that the attendees are the registered owners. Everything has to be above board.

 

[mathepac]

I think you're being a tad pedantic. As Treasurer on our Residents Committee I work closely with the management agent so I'm familiar with the distinction. If someone wants to "speak to the management company", they speak to the management agent.

Similarly, I can't speak for other developments but nobody is asked to produce the deeds to their property at our AGM...I doubt there's anything stopping the OP from attending the AGM and raising a query in respect of this issue.

I wonder is there some confusion here.

A Residents' Committee / Association will have their own set of rules about who may attend and vote, whereas a management company must comply with company law, as pointed out by shesells above.

Any issues OP's friend has relating to common areas or the property itself need to be addressed directly with the landlord, or in a dispute between landlord and tenant, with the PRTB, not with the "maintenance man", the managing agent or the management company.

 

[JoeB]

A rule about 'no kids playing' would be very difficult to implement.. how would it be worded? Who would decide what was play and what wasn't? I suppose you could ban children below a certain age from being in the area at all.. but would this be legal?, and again how would it be implemented in practice?, children often don't have IDs... and what about babies?, they'd be under any age you choose.. so maybe you'd be banning children over three but under fourteen?.. sounds quite tricky to be honest.

Are open spaces in managed developments public land or not?, if they are open to the public then I'd say children must be allowed play, unless there are rules banning everybody from the space.. i.e 'no walking on the grass'

Some posters say they do have rules that ban children or playing.. how are the rules worded?

 

[onq]

If the planning permission specified the open space as requiring high leves of planting to give additional amenity to residents there may be an implication that in such a case, you could not reasonably allow children to play amongst planted bed and so forth, "ruining" the visualt amenity.

However, in many councils amenity spaces for children have received high priority to allow for the "densification" required of new developments (by the Council) and so you can make an argument that play areas may be assumed to exist in every open space unless some other accommodation has been required by or reacehd with the Council.

If the OP has checekd it out and feels the current practice does not reflect the permission, then she can call in the planning enforcement section to investigate.

If the planning inspector upholds her complaint then the management company/agent/pet dog can go hump. They cannot re-write the planning permission.

 

[skerriesbear]

I agree kids here play football all the time. It does not matter to their parents that they damage plants and landscaping nor that they are here from school finishing till dark which is now at 9 and will be later as the Summer approaches. Also, most of the kids are neighborhood kids who do not even live here!!! So much for peace and quiet and enjoying your space.

 

[fobs]

I agree kids here play football all the time. It does not matter to their parents that they damage plants and landscaping nor that they are here from school finishing till dark which is now at 9 and will be later as the Summer approaches. Also, most of the kids are neighborhood kids who do not even live here!!! So much for peace and quiet and enjoying your space.

If you want peace and quiet you live in your own gated property! People who choose to live in a development with families can't expect peace and quiet all the time. Victor Mildrew springs to mind!