New Social Welfare Payment for 65 Year Olds

Thank you for your reply.
Alternatively you would need 52 Class S contributions in 2022. It will depend on how much you are drawing from the ARF - it may not be sufficient for this.
I draw €15,000 P.A. from my ARF so I do pay class S PRSI.
So, under the current rules I qualify?
 
Yes, that should be fine. You should be paying €600 Class S on that. I think €500 is the minimum.
 
Derry25 said:
Thank you for your reply.
Alternatively you would need 52 Class S contributions in 2022. It will depend on how much you are drawing from the ARF - it may not be sufficient for this.
I draw €15,000 P.A. from my ARF so I do pay class S PRSI.
So, under the current rules I qualify?
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You should also confirm this with the relevant Department. AFAIK you can request a statement possibly through your www.mygovid.ie/
account.
 
Your pension "payslip" should show the PRSI class and the number of weeks accrued.

You can obtain a statement of pension contributions from h t t p s : / / s e r v i c e s . m y w e l f a r e . i e / e n / t o p I c s / s t a t e m e n t s - a n d - r e f u n d s / c o n t r i b u t I o n - s t a t e m e n t / (remove the spaces) provIded you have a MyGovID account. This is the best way to get it. The alternative, which isn't publicised very well, is to write and request your statement of pension contributions from the following address; you will need to provide them with your PPS no, your old National Insurance number (if you were working in Ireland in the 70s) and any previous names. If you are writing I'd suggest using registered mail as I've had difficulty getting a response from the PRSI Records section in the past. Note that the Department's records (including the online ones) are generally 5 or 6 months out of date, so the 2020 contributions will not appear on your record until mid 2021.

PRSI Records
Department of Social Protection
McCarter's Road
Ardaravan
Buncrana
Donegal

By the way it also makes sense to get this record and check it thoroughly to ensure that your record is correct and that all contributions for all employments throughout your working life were properly recorded. This will help ensure that you get your correct entitlement when it comes to Pension Age.

If by any chance you aren't currently paying PRSI at one of the rates which entitles you to the new "Benefit Payment for 65-year-olds" (this is unlikely based on then pension details you provided) you could look into voluntary social insurance contributions. AAM is blocking me from posting links but if you google "voluntary prsi contributions" you will find information on w w w . c i t i z e n s i n f o r m a t i o n . i e and the w e l f a r e . i e section of w w w . g o v . i e
 
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Freelance said:
If by any chance you aren't currently paying PRSI at one of the rates which entitles you to the new "Benefit Payment for 65-year-olds" (this is unlikely based on then pension details you provided) you could look into voluntary social insurance contributions
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Why is it unlikely ? The poster has sufficient total contributions and should have sufficient Class S contributions (ie, 52) in the "governing contribution year" - based on an ARF drawdown of €15,000 p.a :

"OR

have paid at least 104 PRSI insurable employment contributions at Class A or H

AND

have paid 52 PRSI self-employment contributions at Class S in the governing contribution year."

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Early Riser said:
Why is it unlikely ? The poster has sufficient total contributions and should have sufficient Class S contributions (ie, 52) in the "governing contribution year" - based on an ARF drawdown of €15,000 p.a :
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I think you misread my post - It is unlikely that he/she isn't paying PRSI, or avoiding the double negative which is probably confusing you, it is likely that he/she is paying PRSI, however it is possible.
 
Maybe someone would know if I will qualify :
I turn 65 at the end of this year so 2019 is my "Governing Contribution Year"
However, I lived and worked & contributed in U.K. for that year (self employed) - Other than that I tick all the boxes to qualify.
I know Contributions are recognised between EU member states (Article 6 EU/EEA Regulation 883/2004) for other benefits so rang Welfare today but basically they said call us back when you turn 65 !! I think they didnt want to commit to anything so early in the new systen).
Anyone have any ideas ??
 
Early Riser said:
The poster has sufficient total contributions and should have sufficient Class S contributions (ie, 52) in the "governing contribution year" - based on an ARF drawdown of €15,000 p.a
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If one draws down €15,000 in one amount in a given (say governing contribution) year, paying 4%, so €600 . . by what mechanism does that translate to 52 Class S contributions in that year? Might you have a Revenue or Citizens Information link which explains same?

Does it not fall under "unearned income" and thus be treated as Class K contribution which does not entitle the person to any social insurance benefits? https://www.citizensinformation.ie/..._prsi/social_insurance_in_ireland.html#l09b20
 
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No specific link for ARFs.

But how is it any different from self-employed people, or people with income from investments, who pay Class S? -

Class S PRSI

Information on Class S PRSI contributions paid by self-employed people.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie

Or voluntary contributions -

Voluntary social insurance contributions

Voluntary social insurance contributions can help you qualify for a social insurance payment in the future. Find out more about making voluntary contributions.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie
 
Voluntary contributions are potentially much more costly.

On further digging this says that ARF PRSI is treated as Class S.

I'd still like to see the mechanics of how someone could draw down €12,500 from an ARF in their governing year (year they turn 63), paying the minimum €500 PRSI, and have confidence that that translates into 52 Class S contributions, therefore ticking a box re applying for the Benefit Payment for 65 Year Olds. Methinks it's too good to be true.

EDIT: this previous AAM thread has largely clarified it for me.
 
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The reference to voluntary contributions relates to the "one off" payment method and the €500 minimum amount - not to cost.

So you reckon Class S PRSI won't count? Or that only Class S on on ARFs won't count? How would that be administered?
 
I don't reckon anything. I'm just failing around trying to figure out . .
1. whether ARF PRSI is Class S - and that seems to be the case given the Ministers Dáil answer in 2018
2. how you need to manage ARF drawdown if you want to to ensure your record shows 52 (or 39 depending on what you need) Class S contributions - that seems to be answered by AAM member bstop here.
3. how much you would have to draw down in a governing year to satisfy the 65's Benefit requirement of 52 (or 39) stamps - it seems that if you draw down monthly you'll get 52 stamps but if it's a one off drawdown it needs to be min. €12,500 to get 52 stamps. I wonder how little you can draw down monthly and still get full stamps re 65's Benefit and State pension (maybe 5000/12?).
 
Sorry. I wasn't aware that you were unsure about ARF PRSI being Class S. The P60 that used to be issued by the ARF providers indicated this.

My reading of it is that you need 52 Class S contributions in the governing year. 39 only seems to refer to A, H or P contributions (or credits) for that year. (Of course you have to meet the other minimum PRSI criteria also).

I am aware of the post you to which you linked suggesting that you could maintain a full Class S record with a drawdown of less than €12,500 if the drawdowns are scheduled monthly. Perhaps, but I would be reluctant to rely on it without further verification.
For one reason, I noted 52 Class S on my record one year (in addition to A) even though the total drawdown was much less than €12,500. However, on a more recent update of the record there is just one Class S. I didn't check this further because it didn't impact on me, as I had the Class A anyway.
A second reason is the minimum voluntary payment of €500. I would be surprised if you could get a full record by paying less than this by way of an ARF. I recall another thread where a poster suggested than an ARF PRSI payment of less than €500 could be topped by way of voluntary contribution to the required €500 for the purpose of maintaining a full record (I haven't searched for the thread).
 
Early Riser said:
Perhaps, but I would be reluctant to rely on it without further verification.
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Me neither.

If I understand it correctly now then someone retiring early, say 60, could draw down the yearly minimum (4%) from their ARF initially, then draw down €12,500 the year they turn 63 only, to ensure ticking the 52 Class S contributions in the governing year re the 65s Benefit, before reverting to 4% the following year (the year they turn 64).
 
That would seem to cover it. Of course it doesn't maintain the record for the State Pension, if short of 40 (apart from one year).
 
There is a report on this payment in Monday's Irish Independent. The qualifying criteria has been changed. On the launch day it was posted on gov.ie that 39 prsi contributions were needed in the governing year and that these could be credited contributions. This has now been changed on the gov.ie site and now at least 13 of these contributions must be paid contributions. Willie O'Dea has highlighted this change and has said he has disappointed constituents contacting him who were lead to believe that they qualified but have now been told they will not get the payment. A cynical person might conclude that the press launch for this payment was a deliberate misleading of our shortly to be 65 year olds.
 
bstop said:
There is a report on this payment in Monday's Irish Independent. The qualifying criteria has been changed. On the launch day it was posted on gov.ie that 39 prsi contributions were needed in the governing year and that these could be credited contributions. This has now been changed on the gov.ie site and now at least 13 of these contributions must be paid contributions. Willie O'Dea has highlighted this change and has said he has disappointed constituents contacting him who were lead to believe that they qualified but have now been told they will not get the payment. A cynical person might conclude that the press launch for this payment was a deliberate misleading of our shortly to be 65 year olds.
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Hello all,
I am one of the optimistic 65 year olds who believed the statements made on the launch of this benefit for 65 year olds.
Worked most of my life and spent time caring for elderly parents.
I was delighted to see that credited contributions would be accepted.
I applied for the payment.
I was refused.
I questioned it and was told about the 13 paid contributions that were required.
I told them this was not published on gov.ie nor on the citizens advice site.
2 days afterwards the additional requirements were published.
I am more than disappointed with the way we were led to believe that all 65 year olds would get this benefit to bridge the gap to full pension.
I feel duped as well as disappointed.
Apart from The Independent on March 1st there has been very little said about this by the media.
 
The present government is very dishonest. The minister who announced this payment and then clandestinely changed the rules for qualification will shortly take up the justice ministry. The title "minister for injustice" would suit her better.
 
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