Does it in practice deter anyone? Is there anyone who decided "We need a new bedroom for the kids but decided against it because of the building regulations"?
Does it in practice deter anyone? Is there anyone who decided "We need a new bedroom for the kids but decided against it because of the building regulations"?If you extensively renovate the C1 house you are supposed to get it up to B2 standard which is a deterrent to upgrading older houses. It would seem more reasonable to insist that you go up X levels.
It does if they can't afford it due to the extra cost of improving the BER.Does it in practice deter anyone? Is there anyone who decided "We need a new bedroom for the kids but decided against it because of the building regulations"?
Same question again. Does it actually happen? Is there any anecdotal evidence of people shelving plans due to the requirement?It does if they can't afford it due to the extra cost of improving the BER.
The building of a property outside the major urban areas is achievable for a relatively modest figure. Land and labour is notably less expensive outside of the urban areas.No I didn't. Read again what I said. I made no suggestion that the cost 22 years ago is achievable today. But the fact remains that my house is large, cosy and warm even if built (competently) for a relative pittance 22 years ago.
They charge development levies even when there is no prospect of public lighting etc ever being provided.
I've no idea but it's reasonable to think that cost influences purchasing decisions.Same question again. Does it actually happen? Is there any anecdotal evidence of people shelving plans due to the requirement?
From my (layman) observations of the Irish Building Industry, whatever improvements in materials and manufacturing methods happened since say the 1980ies have yet to make it into the handbook for Irish Builders.I've no idea but it's reasonable to think that cost influences purchasing decisions.
@Leo's point above is the real issue though; with the improvement in materials and manufacturing methods how on earth is it so much more expensive to build a house now than it was 20 years ago?
What apartments were built with contaminated blocks?Houses wont last as long asthey did once the full extent of mica pyrrhite comes out.
a lot of apartments in Dublin will have to come down
I'm far from being a Civil Engineer but I don't think any apartments in Ireland have a core structure that is block built.What apartments were built with contaminated blocks?
When the cores of these are cast on-site and steel reinforced, why would they have to come down?
Yeah, no way they meet the structural loading requirements for that purpose. I was just wondering what Clive knew about developments that will need to come downI'm far from being a Civil Engineer but I don't think any apartments in Ireland have a core structure that is block built.
A mate of mine is a builder and he said the cost of meeting BER requirements adds a massive cost to the price of building houses. He thinks that they should be allowed to build houses with a lower BER rating that is more affordable for people, but they obviously have higher ongoing heating costs. Having it on a tiered basis allows people to get the house that they can afford.
BER is EU wide and part of their plan to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, so I can't see his plan being adopted.
What land investment? He's a builder. If he was a developer, Steven would presumably have described him as such.I can't help but wonder if your builder is altruistic or if he wants to build more houses at a lower cost so he can maximise the return on the land investment he's made. What's better for him, 20 houses on a plot sold for €500k or 40 smaller and lower rated houses sold @ €400k.?
What we need are well built timber frames houses. They'll last 100 years, can be mainly pre-fabricated in a factory so will be of a much higher quality, are considerably cheaper, have a much lower carbon footprint and can be produced faster. Unfortunately our existing building regulations and our incompetent construction sector mitigate against this. If builders were as good at building as they are at moaning we'd have no shortage of housing.My first house was a badly built timber frame new build.
Yes, there was a systematic failure by the State to enforce regulations and by the so called professionals to ensure that standards were met. Even a desk-top audit would have shown that fire safety standards were not being met.I saw apartments being built in Dublin during the tiger that even to my laymans eyes, the blockwork was appaling. Plaster has covered a lot of issues.
As I understand it, quite a significant number of concrete slabs (floor / ceiling between stories etc) were made by cassidys and sent to Dublin. For years.Yeah, no way they meet the structural loading requirements for that purpose. I was just wondering what Clive knew about developments that will need to come down
And your point is?As I understand it, quite a significant number of concrete slabs (floor / ceiling between stories etc) were made by cassidys and sent to Dublin. For years.
Fully agreed - you are effectively demanding that the FTB also second guesses the potential new technologies in the market and installs best in class now, without having choices later on if a better technology comes along. FTBs are effectively paying 45k extra for what they would get a 50% SEAI grant for if they did on an older home with a cheaper price.As a home owner with an old house I can get grants to make my house energy efficient. And there is no obligation on me to make it energy efficient.
Yet a First Time Buyer is obliged to make it efficient and has to pay for it themselves.
Something wrong somewhere.
Where do you think the builders have gone who were responsible for poor quality builds in the first place? Its only 10 years later in many cases, and lots of the contractors responsible for poor workmanship then will still be in business now, and get to benefit a second time with the scale of work out there. The developer would have used sub contracted labour rather than in house in many cases, and people will have moved around. McFeely etc didn't go around building homes personally - its the contractors who carried out poor quality work, and site foremen who were not doing their jobs, compounded by self-certification which again would have been down to what were likely to be contracted engineers. And all topped off by the state leaving them to get on with it before 2014, when self certification ended.As demonstrated with Mica and the new report on Apartments in Dublin, letting standards slip is not a solution, it just foists the expense on the next generation. Employing a whole tranche of workers who are needed for the repairs rather than new builds, while the original builders make out without liability.
Which is largely because we still haven't professionalised our construction workforce to the point that you can no longer leave school at 15, do a safe pass and rise through the ranks. Doing so would eliminate the cheap labour element while also improving standards, but at significant cost, as then you are trying to only hire professionally trained staff at entry level, but 55 year old Jimmy the ex brickie who left school at 15 to work on city building sites is now senior manager on account of "experience" and hasn't a bulls notion what all this new stuff is, but can talk the talk - and him, take a pay cut, with all his "experience"?From my (layman) observations of the Irish Building Industry, whatever improvements in materials and manufacturing methods happened since say the 1980ies have yet to make it into the handbook for Irish Builders.
There is zero reason or motivation for the building industry to make housing cheaper in Ireland. Zero.
We also have one of the largest concrete businesses here in the world, determined to keep our house building methods at somewhere around 1885.What we need are well built timber frames houses. They'll last 100 years, can be mainly pre-fabricated in a factory so will be of a much higher quality, are considerably cheaper, have a much lower carbon footprint and can be produced faster. Unfortunately our existing building regulations and our incompetent construction sector mitigate against this. If builders were as good at building as they are at moaning we'd have no shortage of housing.
Yes, there was a systematic failure by the State to enforce regulations and by the so called professionals to ensure that standards were met. Even a desk-top audit would have shown that fire safety standards were not being met.
Thankfully most builders are honest people and did what they were meant to do, despite the failures of the State.
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