New course for those new to Property Investment

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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Askaboutmoney regular contributor Stuart is running a course for people considering property investment for the first time. He has invited me to review it for Askaboutmoney. I won't be able to attend it. Would anyone else be willing to do so? You get the benefit of a free course for writing a review!


I was wondering if you would have an interest in either reviewing yourself
or recommending someone who would be interest in reviewing a course I am
currently running, in case it is of interest to any of your contributors to
askaboutmoney.com

The next course is on in the Temple Bar Hotel, Fleet Street
And is running from April 21st until May 12th, between 6.00pm and 8.30pm
(four consecutive Thursdays)
The course cost is ?250 per person, which includes bound set of notes and
CD-ROM including all relevant handouts, charts, spreadsheets and guides
used throughout the course

This course is not meant as inspiration or motivation to take the plunge
into property investing
It's a step-by-step course on the process of acquiring and letting a rental
property and avoiding costly mishaps

If you cannot make it yourself, it would make sense to have someone who is
an experienced property investor
Either that or interested in investing in property or interested in finding
out about investing in property

It would be a waste of not only my time but the other course attendees if I
had to battle with someone throughout the course who wants to disagree with
the concept / social ramifications of property investing

I have set out below a short description of the modules (taken from my
website)
[broken link removed]

Description
The course is specifically set out for purchasing property with a view to
letting it. You can expect to receive all the tools required for this. It
is not a course on general property investing advice, property development
or to build up motivation for investing. It is a practical based workshop
concentrating on worked actual case studies.
The course is broken into four general modules (one per evening)
1) The amounts you need to know about property investing, the facts and
figures in plain English
What return / yield you can expect for your investment? Financing the project Different ways of accessing finance Typical interest rate on borrowings Vat registration as financing Stamp duty and all other initial costs you need to know
2) Benefits and problems and picking properties
General return relating to types of areas
Houses vs. Apartments
City vs. Suburbs
New vs. Second hand
Tax designated properties
Negotiating with estate agents
Making an offer
What other issues need to be addressed
3) Letting a property
Identifying the tenants you want / can expect
How to secure the tenants identified
What you are obliged to provide / what you should provide Legislation you need to be aware of
4) Tax awareness
Tax efficient structuring, general tax planning
Pro-forma tax computations
Detailed examples, estimated tax charges from examples
Tax filing requirements
Tax designated properties, review
Preview on specific tax schemes/planning
Vat registration, pros and cons
Click to expand...
 
Hi Clubman,
I'd be very interested in attending the course and writing a review for the rest of the members!!
Tolka
 
Meant Brendan not Clubman :(
I can't seem to login to the new site??
 
It would be a waste of not only my time but the other course attendees if I
had to battle with someone throughout the course who wants to disagree with
the concept / social ramifications of property investing
Click to expand...

You will probably get a favourable review, but hardly an objective one, if you are trying to dictate at the outset the kind of person you want to do it!

Besides if you have prior experience of course presentation, training or education in general, you will surely prepare yourself for the possibility of contrarian or even abrasive comments from participants?
 
to be objective about this, the person going on it should probably be someone with an interest but little knowledge about property investment. assuming stuart wont be talking BS and making it all up, the verdict would be based on whether the person felt enlightened at the end of the course.

i suggest you invite dermot Jewel (spelling?) from the consumers asociation. i heard him and some talk radio presenter on 98fm on wednesday night doing a consumer spot.
some guy rang in with a very valid question as to whether or not he would be able to claim the vat back on a new investment property and if so what were the implications. the two presenters all but laughed at him and actually told him that you dont pay vat on a house and even if you did he as a consumer couldnt claim any back anyway.
despite the callers repeated protestations that he would be buying it specifically for investment, they actually told him repeatedly that it was not a business and the 98fm guy used the irrelevant example that he himself was self employed but couldnt reclaim the vat on his shopping .

maybe if you invited him along, you might get a plug on the radio
 
I'm far from a proponent of property investment in all cases but I would point out that (a) that link relates to the UK property market specifically so its relevance to Ireland is not obvious (b) in spite of the scary looking graph the article quotes annual house price growth of 7.9% (March 2004 - March 2005) even if prices fell by 0.6% last month - hardly a meltdown (c) while they would say it wouldn't they, the institutions quoted say that the evidence is for a soft rather than hard landing and (d) property investors look to both capital appreciation and rental income for returns so just focusing on house price growth may be misguided.
 
property investors look to both capital appreciation and rental income for returns so just focusing on house price growth may be misguided.
Click to expand...
The point here is that rental returns (especially when calculated after all overheads) are now so low that many investors would earn more by leaving their money on deposit. As such, the prospect of further capital appreciation is the only motivation for most investors. You don't have to go too far down this road before you reach the realms of the Greater Fool Theory

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greaterfooltheory.asp

How long this can be sustained remains to be seen...
 
Fair enough. And fair point about the Greater Fool Theory in this and other contexts! My main point was really that, just as it doesn't make sense for people to arbitrarily claim that property is better than other investments, neither does it make sense for people to dismiss it on the basis of one or two newspaper reports. Once again I'd reiterate that any investment opportunity must be evaluated in terms of appropriateness to the circumstances/needs of the individual and that an objective cost/benefit analysis must be carried out in order to determine it's viability or otherwise.
 
Request for reviewer

ubiquitous said:
You will probably get a favourable review, but hardly an objective one, if you are trying to dictate at the outset the kind of person you want to do it!

Besides if you have prior experience of course presentation, training or education in general, you will surely prepare yourself for the possibility of contrarian or even abrasive comments from participants?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your constructive criticism Ubiquitous :rolleyes:

But I am not purporting to make someone a millionaire from property transactions in 6 weeks or selling properties or time-shares

If you bother to read the course details you would find out that it is a course showing the nuts and bolts of property investing for a newcomer
To help them devise a plan/strategy for investing in property and to prevent them from making costly mistakes
Supplying them with all the tools to make an informed assessment for themselves

I am not trying to convince someone to invest in property, just showing them how it works on a practical level

If you feel you want to slag of a genuine request for an informed impartial review of the content of a course then you probably will

But my preference of a reviewer was someone who would know if I was talking rubbish

How would you feel if you attended a course on servicing gas cookers and someone was sitting at the back shouting "gas is dangerous, it blows up you know"

If you feel property is not a good investment then
Don’t invest in it
Don't go to a course on it
And start a thread in “The Great Financial Debates” forum deriding the idea of investing in property

Thanks
 
I understand where Stuart is coming from. He & I have crossed swords a few times on the issue of property investment. I would be the wrong person to attend/review his course. I would be unable to produce an objective review.
 
Re: Request for reviewer

stuart said:
Thank you for your constructive criticism Ubiquitous :rolleyes:

But I am not purporting to make someone a millionaire from property transactions in 6 weeks or selling properties or time-shares

If you bother to read the course details you would find out that it is a course showing the nuts and bolts of property investing for a newcomer
To help them devise a plan/strategy for investing in property and to prevent them from making costly mistakes
Supplying them with all the tools to make an informed assessment for themselves

I am not trying to convince someone to invest in property, just showing them how it works on a practical level

If you feel you want to slag of a genuine request for an informed impartial review of the content of a course then you probably will

But my preference of a reviewer was someone who would know if I was talking rubbish

How would you feel if you attended a course on servicing gas cookers and someone was sitting at the back shouting "gas is dangerous, it blows up you know"

If you feel property is not a good investment then
Don’t invest in it
Don't go to a course on it
And start a thread in “The Great Financial Debates” forum deriding the idea of investing in property

Thanks
Click to expand...

I don't understand why you are having a go at ubiquitous who didn't exactly slag off the proposed course, accuse you of speaking rubbish or deride the idea of property investment. I personally thought that the caveat voiced by ubiquitous about the dangers of pre-vetting/selection of potential reviewers was merited. Judging by your responses to fair comment on your views and proposals, here and elsewhere, I personally would doubt your ability to provide constructive and balanced information to prospective investors but that's just my personal view and one that you'll need to be prepared to face and rebut in a more polite/professional manner if you plan to make a business out of this stuff.
 
ubiquitous is a new poster who may not realize that there are a number of people here who stalk the property investment forum here so they can put down the very concept at every opportunity . these people would never pay to go on such a course and their prescence would serve no positive purpose .


quote << Besides if you have prior experience of course presentation, training or education in general, you will surely prepare yourself for the possibility of contrarian or even abrasive comments from participants? >>

as a qualified ex secondary teacher who now conducts regular corporate training courses, i would have to say that the above comment above is only relevant in the context of either where a lecturer does not know their subject, juveniles in school or where people are being sent on a course by their boss/company against their will and take it out on the presenter/trainer (which happens). smart arses generally dont spend their own money to go on courses, thankfully allowing people with a genuine interest in a subject to get on with it.

as the published syllabus clearly shows, this course concerns itself with the technical and legal nuts and bolts of an already very established practice - property investment. he wants to impart facts, not concepts. Its purpose is not to convert or convince anyone about anything. This is a subject which a lot of people are interested and as such is quite deserving of a dedicated course.

any FREE place on for a potential reviewer on ANY course should be reserved for someone with a genuine interest in the topic. the advantage of getting a knowledgeable person to review it is that they would be able to provide not only a review for other potentially interested attendees but also constructive feedback and criticism to the trainer.

CONSTRUCTIVE means pointing out inaccuracies, suggesting improvements by pointing out any items that may have been left out, or items that could have been explored in greater detail. it does NOT mean talking about the subject in the wider context of investment strategies, suggesting easier/better ways of investing or generally slagging the idea off.


i think stuart was trying to make this point, perhaps a little too politely, and is perfectly justified in wanting a particularly qualified type of reviewer.
 
eamonn66 said:
ubiquitous is a new poster who may not realize that there are a number of people here who stalk the property investment forum here so they can put down the very concept at every opportunity . these people would never pay to go on such a course and their prescence would serve no positive purpose .
Click to expand...

Who did you have in mind? I have never noticed such posters before. Unless you mean people who question whether or not property is the most appropriate investment in specific cases, mention some of the caveats that apply (including the need to do a property cost/benefit analysis to establish the viability of the opportunity - as with any investment), who suggest that individuals who seem to be rushing into property without evaluating their overall financial situation and/or possible alternative investment opportunities and so on? This is completely different to arbitrarily &quot;putting down&quot; the idea of property investment.
 
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