New boss for the HSE

Delboy said:
I think I would actually vote for the Troika to run Ireland for the 5years+ if such an option was available on the ballot paper at the next general election.
We are incapable of managing our own affairs under the current system
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Never forget it is it is the private sector that is not able to look after themselves , I suspect The Troika would not be interesting,

Do you really think the Troika are interested in herding cats,
 
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mathepac said:
This number is frighteningly close to the 1,800 WTEs I stated are absent from work each year
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It'll be interesting to see how quickly things return to normal this week. The fact that pretty much every out-patient appointment over the next day or so has been cancelled will help, but there was widespread facilitation of nurses who were rostered to be working these three days in switching their days off to non-strike days so that they wouldn't miss out on pay. Anyone in a hospital yesterday notice all the extra nurses milling around?
 
RETIRED2017 said:
Never forget it is it is the private sector that is not able to look after themselves
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If you mean 'look after themselves' in the sense of holding large sections of society to hostage purely in their own self-interest and to hell with the consequences, then yeah, you may have a point, but the private sector is bound by economic fundamentals and reality.
 
I think there’s a good chance of the nurses accepting this offer.
The Labour Court as an independent arbitrator has recognised that nurses are underpaid and that recruitment and retention needs to be addressed.
From the Governments point of view they can argue that massive disruption of the health system has been avoided , that the pay element is somewhere around half of what he nurses asked for and that the recommendation does not breach the stability of the Lansdowne Road Agreement.
On the latter point I believe that they are sadly deluded as all Unions and particularly the teacher unions who did not sign up will now attempt to drive a coach and four through this Agreement
 
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Deiseblue said:
On the latter point I believe that they are sadly deluded as all Unions and particularly the teacher unions who did not sign up will now attempt to drive a horse and four through this Agreement
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I find it bizarre that any person can be so gleeful about industrial unrest and the economic hardship which unsustainable pay increases for middle class State employees cause to the country as a whole and the poorest and most vulnerable in society in particular.

How can anyone who calls themselves a socialist be in favour of these massive transfers of wealth from the poor to the middle classes, especially anyone who is retired on a massive pension which they never earned and which is being paid for my mortgage holders and working people?
 
Deiseblue said:
The Labour Court as an independent arbitrator has recognised that nurses are underpaid and that recruitment and retention needs to be addressed.
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I don't believe the Labour Court has any such mandate, let alone competency.
 
Well they certainly have the mandate from the Government in their role as part of the state’s industrial relations mechanisms and I’m quite sure they have the competency - indeed they have had plenty of practice
 
Deiseblue said:
Well they certainly have the mandate from the Government in their role as part of the state’s industrial relations mechanisms and I’m quite sure they have the competency - indeed they have had plenty of practice
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Their role is one of mediation, that is their sole function in such disputes. Value for money or worth play no part.
 
But more importantly their role is to adjudicate in trade disputes which they have done here by reflecting on both parties submissions and thus issuing the appropriate recommendation.
 
Deiseblue said:
But more importantly their role is to adjudicate in trade disputes which they have done here by reflecting on both parties submissions and thus issuing the appropriate recommendation.
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As ever, and as is the nature of such mediation, they just arrive at a conclusion somewhere in the middle. I'm sure you'll agree that's a long way from...

Deiseblue said:
The Labour Court as an independent arbitrator has recognised that nurses are underpaid
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mathepac said:
Other clinical professionals, psychologists, counsellors, etc.
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Great post.

Just on this though, whilst I think the vast majority of people appreciate the work that is performed by nurses up and down the country, nurses, to the best of my knowledge, do not diagnose nor do they make medical decisions. As such, to call them "medical professionals" or "clinical professions" is a stretch in my opinion.
 
Sorry Leo , I disagree.
The Labour Court has examined the submissions of both parties and in an admittedly convoluted fashion have recommended a pay rise which to my concludes that the court feel that the nurses are underpaid currently
 
Firefly said:
As such, to call them "medical professionals" or "clinical professions" is a stretch in my opinion.
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I agree that nurses are not medical professionals, and I don't believe I have ever referred to them as such. Graduate nurses have nursing degrees but they and other para-medics do work in clinical settings so they can correctly, in my view, be referred to generically as clinicians / health-care workers / care-givers.*

In the UK (and I think the US & Canada) there is a nursing grade referred to as nurse-practitioners who are trained and licensed to prescribe a limited number of drugs. I don't think we have that grade here yet although nurses seem to be agitating for something like it.

* Wikipedia seems to agree with me here. Be still my beating heart!
 
Clinician; noun. a physician or other qualified person who is involved in the treatment and observation of living patients, as distinguished from one engaged in research. a person who teaches or conducts sessions at a clinic.

Clinician definition: someone, such as a doctor, who has qualifications in an area of very skilled health work.

One takes ones dictionary and one's chances.
 
Deiseblue said:
Sorry Leo , I disagree.
The Labour Court has examined the submissions of both parties and in an admittedly convoluted fashion have recommended a pay rise which to my concludes that the court feel that the nurses are underpaid currently
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You can disagree all you like, but their terms of reference do not allow them to carry out such any such assessment. If they did, there would surely be cases where they would recommend increments in excess of those sought, or even recommend pay cuts in the case of staff who were already being overpaid. But no, as you say, via convoluted mean they come up with a recommendation somewhere in the middle of current state and the demand.
 
You also are more than welcome to your view.
The workplace relations website states:
“ The Labour Court is not a court of law . It operates as an industrial relations tribunal , hearing both sides in a case and then issuing a Recommendation setting out its opinion on the dispute and terms on which it should be settled . “
Indeed in the past they have recommended that 800 Eason’s staff accept pay cuts and equally recommended a pay cut for builders and recently overturned a 39k award to a HSE worker by the WRC.
 
Deiseblue said:
Indeed in the past they have recommended that 800 Eason’s staff accept pay cuts
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Very different scenario to a cohort of staff looking for a pay rise coming out with a recommendation to accept a pay cut. But perhaps that should give the government an idea, bring the nurses back to the Labour Court, provide the public accounts and show the current model is unsustainable!

Not sure how their overturning an award related to them determining what certain grades of staff should be paid.
 
The crux of the matter is that based on the submissions by both sides the Labour Court decided that the nurses deserved a pay rise , hence the conclusion that they are currently underpaid .
 
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