Neutrality

[tecate]

I'm all for democratic countries helping people under totalitarian rule to gain their freedom.

Who's hilarious now! Double standards and hipocracy at every turn. There is nothing democratic about sending in the CIA to destabilize governments or stage a coup, but that’s more of the “rules-based” democracy, where the rules are made up as they go along and depending on the occasion.
Bomb Libya, Bomb Iraq - 'cos...i dunno we'll think of something and throw it into the gigantic propaganda machine. Lets change the government in Ukraine so that we can achieve our aims as regards Russia. Russia crosses the border into Ukraine and now the propaganda machine is set to a different program.

Yea, but they could use fortified positions or mobile attach sites. Do you think that the alternative to standing in a field in a nice neat column and getting mown down is to use their own children as human shields?

This is pure propaganda! The only ones going on about “human shields” are the Zionists and the rest of their axis of evil. When the IRA was in full flow in the 80s was there ever a mention of “human shields”? Yet they stowed arms under floor boards, in back gardens and attics, etc. You think that gave the Brits license to flatten West Belfast? That’s how guerilla warfare works. Sorry it's an inconvenience, but the answer is work towards getting along with people, you know, like not stealing their property as continues to go on in the West Bank. Work towards making peace with your neighbors...and I accept that after decades upon decades of atrocities, that's pretty hard - but you made your bed. Many of those families that ended up in Gaza had already been displaced once before.

Do you think the Government of Gaza and Iran's proxies in Lebanon should also engage in line with the Geneva Convention?

Gaza isn’t a country - remember? Your Zionist friends won’t permit that yet in 1922 89% of the population of “Palestine” was Arab, before the Brits (yet again - wherever they went!) deliberately created division and havoc, strategically drawing lines on maps for their own benefit.
If you’re talking about states with state infrastructure, so lets say Iran and Israel, then yes. If you’re talking about guerrilla groups fighting against occupiers of their land, then no.

Have you seen photo's of Gaza before the war?

If you’re trying to claim that it was all grand, then I don’t agree. Israel is keeping them down. If they have their own state and the freedom to operate as a proper state without interference, then at that point, they can take responsibility for how it pans out themselves. Up until that time, it’s not reasonable.

Why are you calling him by his fathers name?

I don't know about your house but in mine we always liked to study the family tree and know where people were from.

Are you going to answer my question?

I just did but apparently it wasn't explicit enough for you. So take the answer I gave you and so that you're clear on it we can bolt on the fact that they have the right to resist against an occupier.

Does that cut both ways?

See above. We covered that. Gaza isn't a state. The West Bank isn't a state. They don't have the machinery of state (or the world's biggest military bully in their back pocket).

No they don't.

Yes, they very much do. We've had senior members of the zionist regime say that:
1. These people have to go somewhere else - maybe they can go to Europe. (because the sick thing is that this is a play for real estate...and those crazed ...people are prepared to kill as many as it takes to clear the path. They would have bulldozed them into Egypt long since but Egypt refused point blank.
2. That Gazan children are terrorists, that Gazan babies are terrorists.
3. Defend Israeli soldiers who have raped palestinians, while one in particular was brought onto zionist TV and paraded as a national hero.
That's just a taste of the background that the yanks and the rest of the vassal axis of evil is aware of...alongside the indiscriminate bombing...and they're enabling them by supplying the weaponry to carry out the genocide. That's the reality.

That has to cut both ways, no?

It certainly does. But then when you weigh it up, it goes with who the aggressor is and this fairytale that the history of the conflict started on October 7 2023 is exactly that - a fairytale.

No, I've explained it clearly. You've chosen to ignore it.

Go back and review. You volunteered your explanation out of context entirely with the discussion that was ongoing at the time.

Given your belief in international law and the Geneva Convention I presume you unequivocally condemn the invasion of Ukraine by Russia?

You said that you're good with the CIA upending governments to bring "democracy." Apparently that extends to elected leaders in Ukraine. Because that's what happened. Victoria Nuland was tasked with that job. For how many years afterwards ethnic Russians were being slaughtered in the Donbass. They got their clown/actor in - and he's had the acting job of a lifetime to perform. Part of which was to threaten Putin with Nuclear arms, and then with NATO. These are objectives of the yanks - not ordinary Ukrainians. The goal has been to divide Russia up into chunks, rape its resources and then get closer to China. Have a look at a map of U.S. bases worldwide. I've never seen such a strong case of "how dare you aggressively place your country so close to our bases!" Have a look at that map for Russia and for China. It speaks volumes.
So, based on the threat - an existential threat to Russia - then most definitely, I agree with the incursion. And as any of you frantically start scribbling, I want to see discussion of the Cuban Missile Crisis in your homework...because if it doesn't tackle that, then you're going back in to repeat yer junior cert.

My tuppence worth on the rules of the game for terrorists. True their rules are less demanding and we have often heard in the NI context that the state forces should be held to a higher standard - and we all sign up to that. But I do not recall the IRA using hospitals and schools as their launch pads.

Terrorists? I know now what Purple was getting at. I was calling them zionist but there you are calling them by their proper name. Thanks for straightening that out.

Now this schools and hospitals business. What about it? Your comrades kept gear under floorboards, in attics, in back gardens, where-ever. This is the propaganda machine going into over-drive. Apparently, if you keep repeating stuff over and over and over, then you'll get your mandate to genocide. And most of the examples of that were rolled out were staged. In fact, were there any real ones? I assume there must have been a couple of real ones and then they wrote the exaggerated script after that. You left out mosques. They're flattening mosques in South Lebanon right now on the basis that they're storage facilities. With the amount of lies that crowd of zionist terrorists have told over the past year, the BBC would have you believe that its the word of God himself.

That people manage to get away with getting acceptance of a genocide on that flimsy basis is quite something. You think you can't be surprised any more and there it is...

Or their targets as the Russian terrorist state are doing in Ukraine even when it had a sign on its roof saying children staying here as in mariupol at very start of invasion and multiple times since

Have a look at how many civilians the yanks killed in Iraq and compare it. Have a look at what "America's greatest ally" is doing in Gaza, Beirut and South Lebanon and compare it.

 

[Purple]

Thanks @tecate, your views on the conflict in the Middle East are as informed, balanced and free from bias as your views on Russia, America, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the rest of the world in general. Don't forget to bring your lunch to school today.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Thanks @tecate, your views on the conflict in the Middle East are as informed, balanced and free from bias as your views on Russia, America, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the rest of the world in general. Don't forget to bring your lunch to school today.

I warned you - you were up against LWT on steroids. Comparing hiding a rifle under the floorboards with embedding a terrorist infrastructure in a hospital was beneath any self respecting troll and saw me off.
@joe sod best of luck.
I see LWT has posted a Truth Report from Aljazeira. Apparently Israel never for one moment thought Hamas could steep that low to use hospitals as shelters. The bombing of hospitals and schools is all part of the genocide plan.

 

[tecate]

Thanks @tecate, your views on the conflict in the Middle East are as informed, balanced and free from bias as your views on Russia, America, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the rest of the world in general. Don't forget to bring your lunch to school today.

Speaking of bias, most of the views found here seem to be based on CNN/BBC/Sky News reporting. Here are some CNN & BBC journalists/reporters explaining how that was all skewed.

Comparing hiding a rifle under the floorboards with embedding a terrorist infrastructure in a hospital was beneath any self respecting troll and saw me off.

"Terrorist infrastructure" ? If the Sky News recruitment people were to read this, they'd be offering you a job! In the case of Hamas? What do they have only sniper rifles, assault rifles and RPGs. You need to watch that Al Jazeera piece - and particularly the trumped up nonsense that was presented by the Israelis as being real regarding the use of a hospital ...which turned out to be a total fabrication. I asked earlier if there was even a real verified case of them using hospitals/schools. Was there?

 

[Purple]

Speaking of bias, most of the views found here seem to be based on CNN/BBC/Sky News reporting.

Well it certainly isn't based on RTE or Irish Times reporting. Fintan O'School's piece today is, by the recent standards of his paper, a far right pro-Israeli diatribe. It is in fact what is for him an unusually well balances article.

 

[Purple]

I warned you - you were up against LWT on steroids.

I now but sure it's entertaining and they've already established their lack of bona-fides with their ridiculously pro-Russian nonsense. Their pro-Hamas anti-Semitisms has the same level of credibility. Do you remember Comical Ali?

 

[tecate]

I now but sure it's entertaining and they've already established their lack of bona-fides with their ridiculously pro-Russian nonsense. Their pro-Hamas anti-Semitisms has the same level of credibility. Do you remember Comical Ali?

A "lack of bona-fides"? From a guy who says he's down with CIA activity in destabilizing other sovereign nations? That's some brand of "democracy." And like the "human shields" lies, the antisemitism is a constant fallback/catch-all and another lie. It isn't antisemitic to be against genocide. There are plenty of decent jews who have spoken out against these Zionist terrorist doings.

 

[Purple]

A "lack of bona-fides"? From a guy who says he's down with CIA activity in destabilizing other sovereign nations?

Absolutely. I'm in favour of democratic countries doing what they can to help the citizens of other countries escape the yoke of totalitarianism.
I know that you are a fan of totalitarianism. You support the murderous totalitarian regime in Russia and the murderous totalitarian regime in Iran and the murderous totalitarian regime in Gaza that started the current war.

That's some brand of "democracy."

The best brand of democracy.

It isn't antisemitic to be against genocide.

Correct, but I'm not aware of anyone being in favour of genocide.

There are plenty of decent jews who have spoken out against these Zionist terrorist doings.

Which Zionists? There are hundreds of millions of Zionists. Most of them aren't Jewish. You'll have to be more specific.

 

[Firefly]

If they have their own state and the freedom to operate as a proper state without interference, then at that point, they can take responsibility for how it pans out themselves. Up until that time, it’s not reasonable.

Can you imagine how many tunnels they could dig then? Probably tunnels all the way under Israel to the West Bank!

 

[Purple]

Can you imagine how many tunnels they could dig then? Probably tunnels all the way under Israel to the West Bank!

We know what they'd do. They are quite open about it. They would attack Israel and try and murder every Jewish man woman and child who lives there without regard to how many of their own men women and children get killed in the process. That's the basis of their death cult. Unfortunately the murderous lunatic who is Prime Minister of Israel has sunk so low that he is almost down to their level. Almost.

 

[Firefly]

We know what they'd do. They are quite open about it. They would attack Israel and try and murder every Jewish man woman and child who lives there without regard to how many of their own men women and children get killed in the process. That's the basis of their death cult. Unfortunately the murderous lunatic who is Prime Minister of Israel has sunk so low that he is almost down to their level. Almost.

Dunno about that fella...maybe Hamas & Hezbollah are really just misundertood by us in the West. Ditto for Iran, Russia, North Korean & China.

 

[tecate]

Absolutely. I'm in favour of democratic countries doing what they can to help the citizens of other countries escape the yoke of totalitarianism.
I know that you are a fan of totalitarianism. You support the murderous totalitarian regime in Russia and the murderous totalitarian regime in Iran and the murderous totalitarian regime in Gaza that started the current war.

Have you examined the trail of misery the CIA has left behind them down through the years in staging coups? You are in favour of what happened in 2014 in Ukraine when a democratically elected president was forced out through a staged coup? Like I said, that's some democracy?
I've mentioned Iraq. You think it wasn't a war crime to kill several hundred thousand Iraqi civilians in a conflict that was (yet again) based on a lie - that nobody was held accountable for? Not to mention that prior to that, Hussein and the U.S. were allies.
How about Hilary Clinton's project - Libya. You go on about the sovereignty of Ukraine. What about the sovereignty of all these other countries?One minute Hilary is appearing alongside Gadaffi's son in Washington, the next minute she's bombed the hell out of the place (because Gadaffi was going to price his oil in Euros...and Hussein the same)...and for what? Is it a better or worse place now? (answer - it's much worse). Same with Afghanistan. That's some "democracy."

Correct, but I'm not aware of anyone being in favour of genocide.

"Standing with Israel," knowing what they're doing is opting in favour of genocide. Supplying arms (and actively providing logistical support which the brits and yanks have done) is participating in a genocide.

 

[tecate]

Unfortunately the murderous lunatic who is Prime Minister of Israel has sunk so low that he is almost down to their level. Almost.

There's not just one murderous lunatic - there's a complete regime of murderous lunatics. Riddle me this. Mossad is revered as being an intelligence master class. It further validated those credentials recently with the exploding walkie talkie/pager saga among other items. With that resource in play, do we seriously believe that Hamas simply walked across on Oct. 7 and Mileikowsky had no idea? Doesn't add up. Those zionist terrorists want real estate - that's what this was about. Into the bargain, the idea was (and still is) to solve their problem by bombing the hell out of them and force them out. Have you got a couple of spare rooms in your house? I bet you don't - your spare rooms are filled with Ukrainians right? Slava Ukraini!

And I agree that these guys are going to be the furthest thing from reasonable. If you thought they were extreme before, any grain of humanity has been bombed out of them at this point...and that chicken will be making its way home to roost over the next couple of decades.

 

[tecate]

Ditto for Iran, Russia, North Korean & China.

I don't know about Rocketman but China, Iran and Russia were never a threat to anyone. You may not like how they organize themselves internally but that's for them to sort out. The U.S. is trying to suggest that they're going around bombing places into democracy - for the good of the world? Give me a break. The Chinese are interested in trade. The U.S. is losing its edge and technologically the Chinese are getting the upper hand. You want to "beat" the Chinese - then go and compete with them. The yanks are engaged in forever wars here there and everywhere, while their own infrastructure crumbles. Meanwhile, the Chinese have given a masterclass in building world class infrastructure. U.S. billions go to the "to the last ukrainian" effort and Mileikowsky's genocide...and the Chinese have taken their billions and spent it on infrastructure that ordinary people will be able to benefit from for decades to come.

 

[Purple]

I don't know about Rocketman but China, Iran and Russia were never a threat to anyone.

Tell that to Nepal, Taiwan, India and just about everyone else in the region.

You may not like how they organize themselves internally but that's for them to sort out.

So it's okay for the Chinese to murder, enslave and imprison their own people by the millions but it's not okay for Israel to do the same?

The U.S. is losing its edge and technologically the Chinese are getting the upper hand.

Rubbish.

You want to "beat" the Chinese - then go and compete with them.

Or stop them giving illegal subsidise to their own companies.

The yanks are engaged in forever wars here there and everywhere, while their own infrastructure crumbles. Meanwhile, the Chinese have given a masterclass in building world class infrastructure. U.S. billions go to the "to the last ukrainian" effort and Mileikowsky's genocide...and the Chinese have taken their billions and spent it on infrastructure that ordinary people will be able to benefit from for decades to come.

Have you been to China?
Are you aware of their property bubble?
Are you aware of their demographic issues?

I don't know about Rocketman but China, Iran and Russia were never a threat to anyone. You may not like how they organize themselves internally but that's for them to sort out. The U.S. is trying to suggest that they're going around bombing places into democracy - for the good of the world? Give me a break. The Chinese are interested in trade. The U.S. is losing its edge and technologically the Chinese are getting the upper hand. You want to "beat" the Chinese - then go and compete with them. The yanks are engaged in forever wars here there and everywhere, while their own infrastructure crumbles. Meanwhile, the Chinese have given a masterclass in building world class infrastructure. U.S. billions go to the "to the last ukrainian" effort and Mileikowsky's genocide...and the Chinese have taken their billions and spent it on infrastructure that ordinary people will be able to benefit from for decades to come.

 

[Purple]

With that resource in play, do we seriously believe that Hamas simply walked across on Oct. 7 and Mileikowsky had no idea?

Okay, so you've drunk that conspiracy theory Kool-Aid as well.
Are you fearful of the Jewish Space lasers?
Are the Lizard People behind it all?
Or is it the Baby-eating Clintons?
What role have the Illuminati played in all of this or are they just puppets of the International Jewish Conspiracy?

Oh, and what's Netanyahu's dad get to do with this?

 

[Firefly]

I don't know about Rocketman but China, Iran and Russia were never a threat to anyone.

I think this could be the quote of 2024. Almost bot-like

 

[thedaddyman]

I don't know about Rocketman but China, Iran and Russia were never a threat to anyone. You may not like how they organize themselves internally but that's for them to sort out. The U.S. is trying to suggest that they're going around bombing places into democracy - for the good of the world? Give me a break. The Chinese are interested in trade. The U.S. is losing its edge and technologically the Chinese are getting the upper hand. You want to "beat" the Chinese - then go and compete with them. The yanks are engaged in forever wars here there and everywhere, while their own infrastructure crumbles. Meanwhile, the Chinese have given a masterclass in building world class infrastructure. U.S. billions go to the "to the last ukrainian" effort and Mileikowsky's genocide...and the Chinese have taken their billions and spent it on infrastructure that ordinary people will be able to benefit from for decades to come.

I feel like i'm in the life of Brian here, "what did the Roman's ever do for us"?

So who have China threatened and/or gone to war with. Tibet stands out, as does Taiwan. Then there was their support (ongoing) of the North Koreans, their support of the North Vietnamese, ongoing conflict with India which has seen between 2000 and 6000 people killed )depending on what source you use) and the Phillippines to name but a few.

As for Russia, if we ignore the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Hungarian invasion, putting down the Prague Spring etc and even the Sino-Russian border conflict, obviously there is Ukraine, their ongoing support of various wars in Africa, Georgia, Chechnia, Tajikistan, Syria, the list goes on. I wonder do Poland feel threatened, or Latvia or Estonia.

And as for Iran, well basically is there a country in the Middle East they have not gone to war with or threatened or supported a revolution in over the last 50 years. I doubt it. And that's without even considering their oppression of 50% of their own people, or women as they are also called.

 

[tecate]

Tell that to Nepal, Taiwan, India and just about everyone else in the region.

I guess I should have been more explicit. I meant that China, Russia and Iran were no threat to the U.S. in the last few years yet it's gone out of its way to try and provoke all three. Taiwan is part of China. It's a legacy, civil war-era, internal issue that they should be left alone to resolve. India-China have a long standing border dispute - big deal. Compare these:

List of Wars involving China
List of Wars involving the U.S.
The scroll wheel on my mouse broke down on the second list. That's an awful lot of bombing people into democracy.

So it's okay for the Chinese to murder, enslave and imprison their own people by the millions but it's not okay for Israel to do the same?

The rate of incarceration is much higher in the U.S. than it is in China. As regards murdering, do you have any stats comparing "murdering" by the yanks and by the Chinese over the past 15 years? Please dig that out, I'd love to see those numbers. Anywhere that China has human rights issues to answer for, I'm all for them being held accountable. However, what's lacking is accountability for everyone. What Israel is carrying out right now is a genocide. You have repeated the propaganda that forms the basis for that genocide...with the "human shields" narrative...and all it is, is a narrative. Furthermore, they've been found to be lying on multiple occasions re. the hospitals/schools nonsense. And even if there was any truth to it, what sort of savage would deem it acceptable to bomb innocent people on the basis that there might be a person of interest inside or equipment or whatever else?

Rubbish.

That's your view and you're sticking to it. No problem. I'm not here to convince you of anything - but I disagree.

Or stop them giving illegal subsidise to their own companies.

More trumped up narrative.

Have you been to China?
Are you aware of their property bubble?
Are you aware of their demographic issues?

You wrote all this in response to a point I made on infrastructure - and by infrastructure I mean the complete network of high speed rail that didn't exist 15 years ago and now does. I mean roads, bridges, etc. What you've come back with doesn't in any way counter the point I made. They spent money on infrastructure that their people will benefit from for years while the yanks don't even have a single high speed rail line in the entire country and would rather spend the money on forever wars.

Okay, so you've drunk that conspiracy theory Kool-Aid as well.

Totally disingenuous. Are you aware what this symbol/character means -> "?" <-
I asked a question. I know you want to run with a certain assumption but you have no grounds to.

I think this could be the quote of 2024. Almost bot-like

I think you can sit this one out Scathophaga stercoraria.

I feel like i'm in the life of Brian here, "what did the Roman's ever do for us"?

So who have China threatened and/or gone to war with. Tibet stands out, as does Taiwan. Then there was their support (ongoing) of the North Koreans, their support of the North Vietnamese, ongoing conflict with India which has seen between 2000 and 6000 people killed )depending on what source you use) and the Phillippines to name but a few.

As for Russia, if we ignore the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Hungarian invasion, putting down the Prague Spring etc and even the Sino-Russian border conflict, obviously there is Ukraine, their ongoing support of various wars in Africa, Georgia, Chechnia, Tajikistan, Syria, the list goes on. I wonder do Poland feel threatened, or Latvia or Estonia.

And as for Iran, well basically is there a country in the Middle East they have not gone to war with or threatened or supported a revolution in over the last 50 years. I doubt it. And that's without even considering their oppression of 50% of their own people, or women as they are also called.

Yeah, I probably didn't make myself clear. I meant that China/Iran/Russia - in the last few years - have done little to nothing to deserve the aggressive stance taken against them by the U.S. None of them were a threat to the U.S.

As regards the Life of Brian reference, criticism isn't a bad thing. Supporting a colony in its genocide should warrant such criticism. 600,000 dead Ukrainians should warrant that criticism (and people will continue to scream bloody blue murder here that that's not on them - but it is).

 

[Leo]

I think this could be the quote of 2024. Almost bot-like

And that Tiananmen Square massacre was just a figment of our imagination.