Navan rail link 'not economically viable'

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redstar

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Iarnroid Eireann are saying that the recent scoping report about the proposed rail link from Dublin to Navan is uneconomical, costing over 500 million to complete.

I think IE never intended to support the Navan rail link, and dragged this out for as long as possible. They have said that Navan will be served by the new Dunboyne/Pace line - which is 25 miles from Navan !!

The Navan link is the last project listed in Transport 21, due 2015.

The Govt, however, didn't mind forking out 600 million for the M50 Westlink toll bridge !!
 
I can't see how it would possibly cost 550m+.

Sure the M3 is much bigger and more complex, and doesn't cost much more.

Surely a railway can bebuilt for 10m per km?
 
Agreed - the M3 cost is higher (680 million) than the Navan rail project but it will have two tolls.
Apparently most of the land along the old rail line was supposed to be preserved in case the line was reinstated. But in their wisdom, IE gave away most of it to local landowners and will now have to spend millions to buy it back. Even Meath Co Co build drainage pipes along part of the routes, which would now have to be moved.

I suspect political will is not there for a rail link as the Govt favours new motorways and tolls.

If the rail link goes ahead it would severely affect the income on the new tolled M3.
The new Dunboyne/Pace rail link will have a HUGE park and ride facility, designed to take people from Navan and surrounding areas. This seems to be the favored solution to avoid a full rail link to Navan.
 
redstar said:
I suspect political will is not there for a rail link as the Govt favours new motorways and tolls.
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Agreed. There is no political will or indeed vision as to how to provide adequate transport to all the new communiting areas that have unfortunately sprung up around the Greater Dublin Area. As evidenced by the recent Primetime programme councillors were only interested in rezoning and gave no thought to transport whatsoever. A national disgrace...
 
Now Transport Minister Dempsey (who is from Trim) says the link is "100% certain" ...

[broken link removed]

This is the same Govt who said it would be built by 2002.
 
redstar said:
Now Transport Minister Dempsey (who is from Trim) says the link is "100% certain" ...

[broken link removed]

This is the same Govt who said it would be built by 2002.
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and who said in 2002 that Metro north would be built by 2007....
 
How could it cost 500m? Cork airport cost 200m! If that's the rate then Navan would be better off with an international airport!
 
shnaek said:
How could it cost 500m? Cork airport cost 200m! If that's the rate then Navan would be better off with an international airport!
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Could it be the land costs? Assume landowners would not sell just the piece needed for the railway and larger tracts would have to be bought. In Spain the Govt can agree to purchase your land and take it immediately, and then the haggling over the price is done afterwards. Naturally nothing with such common sense or in the greater good could ever be envisaged for the banana republic
 
If it was your land would you still think it's a good idea?
 
Yes. The Govt can proceed with planning and construction immediately, the negotiations on land value take a seperate route.
 
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shnaek said:
How could it cost 500m? Cork airport cost 200m! If that's the rate then Navan would be better off with an international airport!
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I know ! Its mad. Heres what "Meath on Track" (Proinsias Mac Fhearghusa) have to say about this ....

"The reason the company is saying it would not be viable is because it is maintaining that the initial capital investment would have to be met out of running costs. What is also unfair is that the figure of €580 million for the project is a 2015 figure," he added.

Also included in the projected cost were fleet acquisition expenses of €78 million.

"However, large parts of the existing network are to be electrified and all that diesel stock, which could not be used on an electrified line, would become available for Navan," he added.
The finding of the Iarnrod Eireann study on the Dunboyne to Navan railway line found that, over a 30-year period, revenue from passengers would just cover operating costs, leaving no surplus to cover capital investment.

The study was carried out by Roughan O`Donovan - Faber Maunsell on behalf of Iarnrod Eireann."

The original land was sold off for (literally) pennies but now has to be bought back.
The viaduct bridge over the Boyne into Navan was bought by a local for 60 pounds in 1963 !
 
It proves even more that Irish government is run, as it has been for decades, but the construction industry and all those who support it (cement manufacturers etc).

Can anyone remember back 25+ years, actually longer, when a certain FG TD proposed (after scrupulous research, costing and study) that it made sense to put in light trams and underground rail in Dublin city centre, with spurs out to Tallaght, Blanchardstown and other soon to be growing suburban centres. he fought for it, fought for it and ended up being shafted by his own part for doing so.

Like the last election, and most recent budget, the government knows who pays it's wages and a lot of taxes - construction. That they won't invest in a worthwhile (economically, socially and environmentally) project like a much needed rail line, shows how far we are from decent governance.
 
Yes, that's right; it's all a grand conspiracy.
 
Purple said:
Yes, that's right; it's all a grand conspiracy.
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I think there is at least a hint of truth in what Almo says, FF has maintained links with property developers and builders and they have shown absolutely no interest in land use planning at any time in their party history. Despite the principals of Bovale Ltd paying the highest tax settlement in the history of the State they are still welcome to dine with FF in their Galway Races tent.
 
I think it's the same reason that nearly everything that the public sector of government touch is badly run and grossly inefficient; just plain old-fashioned incompetence and gross inefficiency in a system where the lunatics run the asylum.
Who can name one public institution that is well run and efficient? (Yes, it's a trick question.)
 

Has it ever occurred to you that, back in the 1980s, the construction industry was crying out load for Liam Skelly's underground/trams idea to be implemented? At the time, it would have been the biggest construction project in the history of the State. The idea that cement manufacturers would have opposed such a plan is bizarre. The idea that they would have actually blocked the plan is laughable.

The idea that the construction industry would oppose such a move today is also laughable. They would stand to gain hundreds of millions from it. If the Government announced such a plan today, the first guy on the radio welcoming the plan would be Tom Parlon of the Construction Industry federation.

Btw, Skelly was shafted by FG for repeatedly voting against Garrett Fitzgerald's government in the Dail - not for his transport plans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liam_Skelly
 

The real issue here is the lack of planning in the use of land and the interrelationship between planning and transport in the development of the Greater Dublin Area. There has been a complete lack of political vision and policy in how this should have been done. Dublin now in commuting terms (unnecessariliy) stretches to Dundalk, out to Athlone and down to Carlow and Wexford. Given how quickly, in less than 20 yeras, this mass urban sprawl has been acheived, I do have some sympathy for CIE in its efforts to provide effective and efficient transport services. This is also in a situation whereby we have a very low level of public transport sudsidy by European standards.

Also,the regulatory regime for bus licensing dates from 1932. In the end, politicians are solely responsible for bringing in legislation and indeed, more important for appointing the Chairperson/s and Boards of all semi state companies.
 
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YOBR said:
In the end, politicians are solely responsible for bringing in legislation and indeed, more important for appointing the Chairperson/s and Boards of all semi state companies.
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Yep, the politicians and senior civil servants are rubbish as well. Government and public services are, as a rule, badly run, badly organised and staffed by people who do as little as possible as often as possible. There are exceptions I'm sure, but I haven't seen them.
 

Yes, but who do politicians get their mandate from? In some regards, we are a stupid race of people only concerned with our own parochial concerns and interests and are continuing to pay a high price for such ignorance.
 
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