My article in today's Indo: Report on Trim court where 5 repossessions were granted

I have a theory that it may have something with people’s perception of their house as an asset and not only with people’s ability to repay. Presumably, the courts system had the same lenient and convoluted process before the crash. But the rate of arrears was lower not only because of a lower unemployment but because of different incentives borrowers had then also, don’t you think?

Before the crash, with people seeing more equity in their houses as prices kept rising they were more inclined to toughen up and keep paying even if it was difficult. Unlike now. Second, many borrowers following the crash may also see banks as discredited and incompetent and the same logic may be in place, if the banks got away with it, why can’t they? Third, I wonder if the size of the down payment decreases the probability of arrears not because such borrowers are likely to have smaller loans but because psychologically they have a stake in their house, so they keep paying hoping for the prices to rise. If you had a 100% mortgage, you never had any real stake in the house, you walk away. Brendan only referred to the size of their outstanding loans but it is unclear about the amounts people lost personally.
 
And if they do not streamline the repossession the arrears may become self-enforcing so that people who are borderline will join the train because if others can why can’t they?

Hi visigoth

I have argued in the past that streamlining the repossession process would reduce the arrears figures dramatically.

A lot of people get into trouble because they see no penalty for not paying their mortgage and they just stop. After a few years, they may be gone beyond recovery. Had they addressed the problem early on, they would not be in such deep arrears.

Brendan
 
This is fascinating and hard to believe. And if they do not streamline the repossession the arrears may become self-enforcing so that people who are borderline will join the train because if others can why can’t they?

Absolutely.

But it has an even bigger impact because the banking system cannot replace non-performing loans with performing loans secured on the same properties.

The result?

Higher interest rates for those that are meeting their obligations.
 
Could not agree more, and not entirely clear what drives it, it is not like the govt can just tell the courts to get tough and speed it up, can it? Bad for competition if it deters the new entrants, bad for the banks, horrible for SVR customers, and perhaps bad for people in arrears themselves as they can't move on and have the perverse incentives not to pay instead. But it can't go on forever surely, something has to give.

But like I said, I am curious if all things being equal, if borrowers with equal loan amounts but with a higher stake in their houses - higher LTV originally - are less likely to default than those who acquired with 100% finance. My gut feeling it is the case, and borrowers in other jurisdictions, e.g., Italy, are less likely to default not only because of speedier repossession but also because they invest much more up front in their houses.
 
There is a considerable body of evidence that shows a strong correlation between high LTVs and defaults.

Here's a Central Bank paper on the subject:

[broken link removed]
 
I'd be curious as to what the process is like in the UK/NI. I just can't imagine similar delays/outcomes in any other country. A lot of this is policitically/media driven. I know we have a particular hang up about the family home but ultimately, as per previous posts, this is actually having a very detrimental effect on the banks/mortgage customers and society as a whole. The courts need to get real and distinguish genuine family home cases and the rest.
 
The courts need to get real and distinguish genuine family home cases and the rest.
They need to get real, full stop. It's not for them to decide whether people deserve to stay in a house just because it's a family home unless there is some distinction made in the Constitution between Renters and Home Owners that I'm not aware of.

If the mortgage has not being paid, and no deal has being made outside of the Court process, then the Courts should apply the rule of law...not the rules of can kicking
 
<<There is a considerable body of evidence that shows a strong correlation between high LTVs and defaults.

Then the current policy of 80% LTV makes sense despite the anguish of people who are unable to save to want to have their own house here and now. There could be many ways to skin a cat here - one is to streamline repossessions, second - make sure people have more skin in the game.

Pity the CBI did not think about it before 2008.
 
It seems that many people are unaware that the banks place a tangible cash value on a voluntary surrender of a property Brendan. Your article clearly demonstrates why this is - they know the cost and time involved in legal proceedings is very high. A voluntary surrender can be used as part of an Accelerated PIA to clear down all your debts inside 6 months. Surely this is the fastest and cleanest route out of insolvency? From our experience in negotiations with banks to date the average value to the mortgage lender of a voluntary property surrender is around €30,000. People are often being badly advised because hanging on for dear life is not always the only option.
 
I was in Trim Court again yesterday - report to follow. Ben Gilroy was on the list.

Brian O'Connell will be reporting on it on Sean O'Rourke on Wednesday.

Brendan
 
Last edited:
The report has been deferred and is now scheduled to be broadcast at around 10.15 this morning.

Update: Rescheduled to 10.45
 
Last edited:
Here is my report from Trim Court on 23 November

upload_2015-11-26_9-38-51.png

Again, the Registrar introduced proceedings with the same words as she did the last time.

“If this is your first time in court, you may or may not know how to proceed. Even at this late stage, most cases are resolved. There are two authorised organisations outside – MABS and the Insolvency Service. Ask for an adjournment to consult them.

Repossessions are very rare. There has been only a handful of actual repossessions in Meath and Louth in recent years, despite what you read in the papers. Most are for vacant and abandoned properties. Take advice from the authorised groups. I will give you whatever time it takes”

Interesting cases


A) Arrears of €60k on a mortgage of €165k. One payment of €50 made in the last 5 years. The borrower had contacted MABS recently and has made an appointment to meet them on 11 January. Adjourned to 24 February. The Registrar said "They may be able to work something out, although it doesn't sound hopeful."

B) The lender was unable to serve proceedings on the owners as the house is rented. The tenants wouldn't say to whom they are paying rent but confirmed that the owners have not lived there for some time. As the lender could not serve the proceedings in person on the mortgage holder, the court granted them permission to serve notice by registered mail. The case was adjourned to the 9th May.

C) The property is abandoned and vacant. But as it's a family home, Circuit Court procedures says that there has to be an adjournment on the first appearance in court. Adjourned initially to 23 May, but the Registrar changed it to 11 January under the circumstances.

D) Solicitor for EBS could not proceed as they had not yet received a Certificate of Rateable Valuation from the Valuation Office. (This is needed to show that the house is not a mansion and so should be in the High Court) The sole borrower said she had no objection to an order being granted. She is no longer living there and she is talking to Grant Thornton about a PIA. The solicitor for the EBS felt that the borrower should not give consent without professional advice. Adjourned to 25 January.

E) The borrower had agreed to voluntary surrender but would not consent to an order for possession as "we would still be liable for the shortfall." The lender's offer of voluntary surrender had expired. Case adjourned to January.

F) Start Mortgages vs. Ben Gilroy. It was quick and hard to follow. He was present in court but did not speak. The Civil Bill had expired so the lender has to apply to the judge to renew it or extend it. Adjourned to 13th June.

G) Property has been vacant for 4 years. The bank has been unable to locate the mortgage holder. The bank applied for permission to serve notice by registered post. Adjourned to 24 February.

H) Lender applied for adjournment. Borrower asked to address the court. He has been paying €700 per month for some time. The interest is €400. He wants a long term deal. The bank wants a new SFS. Nothing has changed since the last SFS. The Registrar told him to submit a new one saying that nothing has changed. Adjourned to 23 May.

I) It was the first time in court, so although the borrower now lives in Australia, it was adjourned to 23 May, as it was the first time in court.

J) A financial advisor addressed the Registrar on behalf of the borrower. Usually only solicitors are allowed to address the court, so it's good to see the Registrar not enforcing this strictly.

K) An apartment. Lots of post and junk mail lying around so it appears to be vacant. Order for substitute service by registered mail granted. Adjourned to 23 May.

L) The insurance company has told the borrower to vacate the building as it's a fire hazard. There is nothing to be gained by granting an order for possession. Borrower talking to MABS.

M) BoI wanted to proceed with an order. Solicitor for defendant said that there was equity in the property and that the borrower proposed to sell it. Bank said that they had got an adjournment on that basis the last time. Nothing paid since 9/2013. Registrar granted a peremptory adjournment against the borrower to 24 February . This means that if it's not sold, the court will grant an order on that date.
 
Brian O'Connell has just reported on this on Today with Sean O'Rourke.

[broken link removed]

26 November Repossession Courts

He got some additional information from the borrowers.

This is one of the first reports I have heard which showed how difficult it is for the banks to repossess homes, even if they are vacant or abandoned and even if the borrower wanted to surrender them.

A) A woman originally from Nigeria lost her job in 2010. The repayment should be €900 a month. She has had health problems - depression. She wakes up thinking she will lose her home. So she rang the bank and told them to take it. She has one child.

F) Ben Gilroy
. He had a deposit of €150k and borrowed €300k. He doesn't know his arrears, but reckons it's about €100k. The payment should be €2,800 a month but "how can I afford that, I am just an ordinary electrician/operator. It was adjourned because I haven't been served with notice yet. I have a young girl at home with cancer. The wrong people are before the courts. The banks are using bailed out money to pay solicitors and barristers to destroy the people who have bailed them out."

1) A businessman who remortgaged his home to finance his business is paying nothing on his mortgage. Got an adjournment.

Brian's comments
The bar is set incredibly high for the bank to actually get an order for repossession. He gave the example of E) above.
 
Last edited:
The legal system is broken, no doubt about it. And people on Standard Variable Rate mortgages are paying for it
 
Excellent BB to find out what is going on. Why are there so many adjournments do you know. Can you describe the courtroom, the set up the people there. Is it intimidating. Are people upset. Do people go out to Mabs/Insolvency experts - that's really good news they are finally there. What happens those people's cases, does Mabs come back in with them. Are the Mabs/Insolvency people lawyers?
 
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...as-hotels-to-close-over-christmas-365119.html

I wonder how families facing the prospect of Christmas on the streets feel when they hear about a non-national who has paid a grand total of €50 towards her mortgage over the past 5 years getting a further adjournment until the end of February?

If only there were vacant properties available that could house these poor families...

It's a cruel joke at this stage.

The mystery to me is that more people are not at least starting to question the fairness of this ongoing farce.:(
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Excellent BB to find out what is going on. Why are there so many adjournments do you know. Can you describe the courtroom, the set up the people there. Is it intimidating. Are people upset. Do people go out to Mabs/Insolvency experts - that's really good news they are finally there. What happens those people's cases, does Mabs come back in with them. Are the Mabs/Insolvency people lawyers?
He did describe it on another thread, recently, you'll have to try and find it.
 
Back
Top