Most dislikeable professions

Obvisouly OP has had bad experiance with stated pro's, although I do agree with you on the 3rd level education being irrelevant.
 
DavyJones said:
Obvisouly OP has had bad experiance with stated pro's, although I do agree with you on the 3rd level education being irrelevant.
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In most cases yes. I would not like to be treated by a doctor who has no medical degree etc but I helped out a friend who took advice on an employment law issue from a solicitor who worked for a major firm of solicitors in Dublin and another friend who runs a large HR department pointed out that the advice received was incorrect in law. This didn't stop them from issuing a massive bill. This was a good example of an incompetent lawyer and how her firm closed ranks around her when she screwed up but that doesn't mean that all solicitors can be tarred with that brush.
 
I think that the OP has contradicted himself and should immediately remove Estate Agents from the list because they are do not belong to a Profession like Doctors , Accountants Nurses or Engineers . Estate Agents don't study for years in order to be able to carry out their activities .

I did a quick search on Wikipedia to support my argument ;
pjq


Quote:
Professional

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A professional can be either a person in a profession (a specific kind of work) or in sports (a sportsman/sportwomans doing sports for payment). Sometimes it is also used to indicate a special level of quality of goods or tools.......

A professional is a worker required to possess a large knowledge derived from extensive academic (usually tertiary), with the training being almost always formalized. Typical professions include Architects, Engineers, Lawyers or Doctors.......

A profession is an occupation that requires extensive training and the study and mastery of specialized knowledge, and usually has a professional association, ethical code and process of certification or licensing. Examples are: librarianship, accounting, law, teaching, architecture, medicine, finance, the military, the clergy, nursing, ....

In the United Kingdom residential estate agents are largely unregulated (although legal provision exists to introduce regulation). Some estate agents are members of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS), the principal body for UK real estate professionals. However, the vast majority of RICS members — known as Chartered Surveyors — who practice estate agency do so on commercial property.
For residential property a trade association, the National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA), exists, but as a non-professional body it has limited scope for disciplining members when appropriate.
 
pjq said:
I think that the OP has contradicted himself and should immediately remove Estate Agents from the list because they are do not belong to a Profession like Doctors , Accountants Nurses or Engineers . Estate Agents don't study for years in order to be able to carry out their activities .

I did a quick search on Wikipedia to support my argument ;
pjq


Quote:
Professional

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A professional can be either a person in a profession (a specific kind of work) or in sports (a sportsman/sportwomans doing sports for payment). Sometimes it is also used to indicate a special level of quality of goods or tools.......

A professional is a worker required to possess a large knowledge derived from extensive academic (usually tertiary), with the training being almost always formalized. Typical professions include Architects, Engineers, Lawyers or Doctors.......

A profession is an occupation that requires extensive training and the study and mastery of specialized knowledge, and usually has a professional association, ethical code and process of certification or licensing. Examples are: librarianship, accounting, law, teaching, architecture, medicine, finance, the military, the clergy, nursing, ....

In the United Kingdom residential estate agents are largely unregulated (although legal provision exists to introduce regulation). Some estate agents are members of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS), the principal body for UK real estate professionals. However, the vast majority of RICS members — known as Chartered Surveyors — who practice estate agency do so on commercial property.
For residential property a trade association, the National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA), exists, but as a non-professional body it has limited scope for disciplining members when appropriate.
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I have heard it said that the only real professions are law and medicine.
I'm a tradesman so it's not applicable to me either way.
 
I think that the OP has contradicted himself and should immediately remove Estate Agents from the list because they are do not belong to a Profession like Doctors , Accountants Nurses or Engineers . Estate Agents don't study for years in order to be able to carry out their activities .
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From your thinly veiled jibe, I take it that you have the same viewpoint as the OP, but if you want to make a valid point you may want to stretch your search beyond wikipedia for sources. I don't get the whole 'profession' debate anyway, why are people so irate when it comes to EA's describing themselves as professional. Could it be that EA's are getting above their station aswell as earning tons of cash for absolutley no work, and any work they do is deceitful?

When people are asked the following questions the answers are generally similiar to this;
What is your perception od EA's - 'They can't be trusted, blah blah blah'

Have you ever had a bad personal experience in dealing with an EA - 'Ah, no'.
 
MrMan said:
From your thinly veiled jibe, I take it that you have the same viewpoint as the OP, but if you want to make a valid point you may want to stretch your search beyond wikipedia for sources. I don't get the whole 'profession' debate anyway, why are people so irate when it comes to EA's describing themselves as professional. Could it be that EA's are getting above their station aswell as earning tons of cash for absolutley no work, and any work they do is deceitful?

When people are asked the following questions the answers are generally similiar to this;
What is your perception od EA's - 'They can't be trusted, blah blah blah'

Have you ever had a bad personal experience in dealing with an EA - 'Ah, no'.
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I dont understand what peoples problems with EAs are!!
"They cant be trusted" - Im sure that anyone who says this is suffering from paranoia and they probably dont trust their mechanic, plumber, dentist, electrician or anyone else who knows more about a given field than they do. If you were selling your home youd be delighted with the very same qualities that you complain about as a buyer.
"They get paid a lot of money for doing very little" - I challenge anyone who says this to list their own home on daft.ie, take photos of the property that shows it in its best light, organise viewings, answer detailed questions from possible buyers, describe it accurately, negotiate to get the best price and deal with one or more interested parties to come to an agreement that suits both buyer and seller. Then come back and tell us if they felt they did 'very little'.
"Formal education and charging more than people who have studied for years" - Id really have to question the intelligence of someone studying for years if the outcome was that they made less money than someone in the same field with no education. A formal education is hardly the be all and end all anyway, I know plenty of people with common sense and business acumen who have learned their skills from practical work in a specific environment.

MrMan - for the record to answer your 2 questions - my perception of EAs are that they are people doing a job thats needed otherwise it wouldnt exist at all.

I have had a bad personal experience dealing with an EA but it had nothing to do with the job in question and more to do with an individual who just had bad manners regardless of what job she was in.
 
Purple said:
Are you suggesting that a qualification stops people from BS'ing?
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No. But if you have a qualification in your supposed field of expertise, it might earn you the benefit of the doubt.

Every doctor/lawyer/plumber, etc I've ever encountered, for example, could be a first class purveyor of guff but his/her qualification gives them an expertise I'm not in a position to dispute (imperfect knowledge).

In the case of estate agents, no such formal expertise is required. The way some of them casually talk up house values is something that not even the best qualified economists or financial experts would ever be comfortable doing.

That they purport to have an insight to how property prices will fare is a bit rich to say the least. In a lot of cases it's based on nothing stronger than pub talk.
 
I have had a bad personal experience dealing with an EA but it had nothing to do with the job in question and more to do with an individual who just had bad manners regardless of what job she was in.
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I think this has been the case for alot of people,they have come across a rather brash or arrogant individual, but unfortunately other people seem to let an individual colour their entire perception of EA's.

No. But if you have a qualification in your supposed field of expertise, it might earn you the benefit of the doubt.
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I'm qualified, but that earns me no leeway when it comes to peoples perceptions. I've had people tell me straight to my face that I'm a liar and they didn't see anything wrong with that as if its par for the course. The fact that you go about your business in an honest fashion doesn't exempt you from being the target of lazy stereotypes like the ones you are leaning towards.

That they purport to have an insight to how property prices will fare is a bit rich to say the least
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Why so?

In a lot of cases it's based on nothing stronger than pub talk.
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I'd say in alot of cases its just small talk during viewings, granted young in experienced EA's might lean towards gossip style 'property analysis' but I'm sure most people can see through that, and its more naivity than malice.
 
I think the thread itself is mean spirited and probably a result of bad experiences as has been suggested.

I have had bad experiences with solicitors, engineers, estate agents, doctors....etc... like a lot of people.

I have also had plenty of good experiences too...like a lot of people.

As it happens, my last EA experience was as professional and close to perfect as I could have hoped for. However, to suggest that this is representative of the industry is just as unreasonable as to suggest they are all liars/incompetent etc.
 
MrMan said:
Why so?
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Because any sort of insight on the future of property values should properly be based on a thorough analysis of ALL relevant factors - economic, financial, political. sociological, environmental etc - not just a hunch. Even with this knowledge, it's impossible to call things correctly but at least if provides for an informed reasoning.

With respect to the EA profession, it EAs had this kind of knowledge they'd probably be doing something else. EA's should confine their advice to the things like the immediate locality of a property, its structural soundness, any work required, plans for the area, etc. Making comments on whether the market has peaked/bottomed out etc is beyond their (and most people's) competence.
 
EA's dont have crystal balls, but more often than not they are asked something along the lines of 'do you think the market will fall anymore' so rather than volunteering info that as you correctly say cant be backed up its generally a cae of trying to answer a difficult question. one of the big 'no no's' is to reply 'I don't know' to any question.


Because any sort of insight on the future of property values should properly be based on a thorough analysis of ALL relevant factors
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I agree with you, but they should have reasoned analysis for the location that they are dealing with, as in future development, infrastructure changes etc.
 
Staples said:
No. But if you have a qualification in your supposed field of expertise, it might earn you the benefit of the doubt.
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It might but I'll take experience over qualification nine times out of ten.

Staples said:
Every doctor/lawyer/plumber, etc I've ever encountered, for example, could be a first class purveyor of guff but his/her qualification gives them an expertise I'm not in a position to dispute (imperfect knowledge).
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Teachers often complain that because people have been through the education system they all seem to feel qualified to comment on the education system in detail. The same seems to be the case with the property market. While they are not economists they do work in the market and as such are exposed to it on a daily basis.

Staples said:
In the case of estate agents, no such formal expertise is required. The way some of them casually talk up house values is something that not even the best qualified economists or financial experts would ever be comfortable doing.
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Estate agents talk up property, stock brokers talk up stocks, furniture salesmen talk up furniture, snake oil salesmen talk up shake oil. Get the picture?

Staples said:
That they purport to have an insight to how property prices will fare is a bit rich to say the least. In a lot of cases it's based on nothing stronger than pub talk.
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Pub talk and their day-to-day experience. Any person intelligent enough to tie their own shoelaces will understand that they will not talk down what they are selling. Fiat dealers don't tell you that they sell rubbish cars, Turkeys don't vote for Christmas etc.
 
MrMan said:
When people are asked the following questions the answers are generally similiar to this;
What is your perception od EA's - 'They can't be trusted, blah blah blah'

Have you ever had a bad personal experience in dealing with an EA - 'Ah, no'.
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But when asked " do you know someone who had a bad personal experience in dealing with an EA ? " I would suspect most people - in Ireland anyway - would say yes.
 
rabbit said:
But when asked " do you know someone who had a bad personal experience in dealing with an EA ? " I would suspect most people - in Ireland anyway - would say yes.
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I had a very bad experience dealing with an EA but the last one I dealt with was superb. I was more than happy to pay him he fee as I thought he provided excellent value for money.
My experience with solicitors have been more negative than positive but I would not make blanket judgements about all solicitors. Doing so with be lazy and meaningless.
 
Purple said:
Estate agents talk up property, stock brokers talk up stocks, furniture salesmen talk up furniture, snake oil salesmen talk up shake oil. Get the picture?
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There's a difference between selling for the sake of it and good customer service. It's one thing talking something up - it's another to talk about something you really aren't qualified (formally or otherwise) to talk about. You can point out the positives without telling porkies. You can point out, for example, that a Fiat is cheap, good value for money and is economical on petrol. If you were to say, however, that it had a Ferrari engine and held its value better than any other car, you'd be stretching things unreasonably.

As Mr Man has revealed, it's something of a no-no to say "I don't know" in the EA industry and so the temptation is to lie and pretend you do. However this doesn't exclude the more reasonable "It's difficult to say with any certainty". That would be an honest answer (God forbid). An EA can "talk up" the quality of the build, the immediate vicinity and the local amenities with some level of competence. "Talking up" the market, however, in the absence any support, is just plain deceitful.

I would accept that in any selling occupation there are both genuine and deceitful operators. However, I believe that the functions and structures of the EA sector make this a breeding ground for the latter.
 
Staples said:
I would accept that in any selling occupation there are both genuine and deceitful operators. However, I believe that the functions and structures of the EA sector make this a breeding ground for the latter.
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There are genuine + deceitful operators in all aspects of life. However, I do not think even second hand car salemen - never mind a salesperson in a shop for example - would like to be compared with EA's though.
 
ubiquitous said:
Yes, but from 1994 to 2007, surely it would have been deceitful for an EA to deny that the market was rising?
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In any of those years, EAs had no more knowledge of how things were going to pan out than anybody else. You can comment on how things have gone in the past but to suggest that this forms the basis for future performance is wrong. Financial "products" are required to make explicit that past performance is no guarantee of future returns (or words to that effect).
 
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