Mortgage deposit with gambling winnings

[Gordon Gekko]

I’m speaking from experience:

a) My mortgage broker advised me to increase a tenant’s rent when I was buying my home; I wanted to be fair to the tenant, so instead I got the real rent paid into another account and then paid the higher amount into my main current account marked “rent”. There was no question of me paying tax on the higher amount

b) My parents loaned me some money at the same time. My bank insisted that they confirm it was a gift. Their tax adviser just documented it as a loan and noted that the confirmation to the bank was merely for banking purposes and not accurate

This particular case is clearcut. Someone contending that it’s a gift would look pretty silly when evidence of the gambling win was produced. It’s one thing to pretend that something is a gift in the limited world of mortgage applications. It’s another to disprove what actually happened when there’s evidence to back it up! It’s the difference between selective information and all of the available information.

Calling an apple an orange doesn’t make it an orange.

 

[cormacol]

Out of interest Gordon, does your recommendation cross into fraudulent representation to the bank - is there any contractual implications in doing so....not that it would really matter post issuance of the loan I suspect

 

[Gordon Gekko]

Out of interest Gordon, does your recommendation cross into fraudulent representation to the bank - is there any contractual implications in doing so....not that it would really matter post issuance of the loan I suspect

I doubt it. We live in the real world. The OP could just tell the bank that it’s gambling winnings and be barred from purchasing a home. Or the application can be massaged. Is it fraud to tell the life insurance company that you drink 7 units of alcohol a week when the true number is a multiple of that?

 

[cormacol]

I honestly don’t know but the life insurance example sounds dodgy maybe not fraud though ..why do they ask the question, it’s for underwriting purposes. Where do you draw the line - failing to disclose a heart attack.

As you say though in the real world maybe it doesn’t matter

 

[Steven Barrett]

I honestly don’t know but the life insurance example sounds dodgy maybe not fraud though ..why do they ask the question, it’s for underwriting purposes. Where do you draw the line - failing to disclose a heart attack.

As you say though in the real world maybe it doesn’t matter

Life is not black and white and we mainly live in an area of grey. Telling a bank that money is a gift instead of a loan is a tactic used to satisfy their checklists. You can afford to pay back to loan to your parents and the mortgage but if you mark it down as a loan, their calculator, which uses assumptions (some ignore bonuses and share options), will say you can't afford the loan.

With life assurance, the test is material facts. If you disclosed you never had a heart attack and you did, it is non disclosure of a material fact. Saying you drink 7 units when you drink 25 isn't. If you drink 50 units however, it may be deemed non disclosure. Likewise, if you said you drink 0 units but didn't disclose that you are a recovering alcoholic, it would be deemed non disclosure.


Regarding the OP, take advice from a mortgage broker on what you should do.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

 

[The_Cash_Man]

Personally I’d start filtering the €60k into another account to create a pattern of regular saving.

e.g. transfer €36k into a new deposit account, and then ‘save’ €2k a month for just over a year, or whatever the right number is.

Then any observation of six months’ statements or even one year’s won’t look weird.

Unless you’re not earning enough to save those amounts in the first place of course. In which case getting a parent to certify it as a gift might help.

I previously lived in the UK, and over there the mortgage providers will find any and all bank account you have through the credit registers, experian etc.
However, over here it appears to be different, but I wish I realised that some time ago and opened a separate bank account especially for gambling.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

With life assurance, the test is material facts. If you disclosed you never had a heart attack and you did, it is non disclosure of a material fact. Saying you drink 7 units when you drink 25 isn't. If you drink 50 units however, it may be deemed non disclosure. Likewise, if you said you drink 0 units but didn't disclose that you are a recovering alcoholic, it would be deemed non disclosure.

Exactly. Failure to disclose material facts with insurance can make you better off by receiving a higher payout.

If you mislead a lender you still owe them the money.......

 

[Steven Barrett]

Exactly. Failure to disclose material facts with insurance can make you better off by receiving a higher payout.

If you mislead a lender you still owe them the money.......

It can also lead to you getting no payout.

Misleading a lender, you still get the money and can then default...

 

[time to plan]

Out of interest Gordon, does your recommendation cross into fraudulent representation to the bank - is there any contractual implications in doing so....not that it would really matter post issuance of the loan I suspect

It sounds very much like mortgage fraud, even if it is a minor case with little chance of getting caught of prosecuted. A more serious case is here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30920295.html - forging bank statements and P60s etc. But the principle is the same

 

[time to plan]

Exactly. Failure to disclose material facts with insurance can make you better off by receiving a higher payout.

If you mislead a lender you still owe them the money.......

Or they give you an advantageous interest rate because you've given false information to change a risk factor.

 

[anntionette]

It sounds very much like mortgage fraud, even if it is a minor case with little chance of getting caught of prosecuted. A more serious case is here: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30920295.html - forging bank statements and P60s etc. But the principle is the same

But this guy only got caught because he was investigated for murdering his wife. Very unlikely fraud squad would go nosing thru your old mortgage applications unless you do something to get their attention. Otherwise they'd be very busy prosecuting! LOLS

 

[time to plan]

But this guy only got caught because he was investigated for murdering his wife. Very unlikely fraud squad would go nosing thru your old mortgage applications unless you do something to get their attention. Otherwise they'd be very busy prosecuting! LOLS

As I said: a minor case with little chance of getting caught of prosecuted.